If there were fences, how does that work for new-hires after the DCC? Are the fences only on senior aircraft that a new-hire wouldn't be able to hold in a short time anyway? Can someone explain how the fences work, please.

You can read them for yourself if you have access to either side's SLI proposal. The Conditions and Restrictions (commonly known as fences) apply only to those pilots hired prior to the date of constructive notice - which in our case is April 14, 2008. Any pilot hired after that will not have any of the fence protections.

Carl

Whoops...spoke too soon. What I've outlined above is only in the NWA SLI proposal. The DAL SLI proposal doesn't distinguish between pilots hired before or after constructive notice. It just discusses pilots from each group's pre-merger seniority list.

Dont' mean to start a war, but that is a weak spot in the DAL SLI fences. I don't know of any merger where the arbitrator didn't treat post constructive notice pilots differently than pre constructive notice. In the DAL SLI proposal, some post constructive notice DAL pilots are senior to NWA pre constructive notice pilots. If the arbitrators agreed to that, I think it would be the first time.

In the DAL SLI, the bottom 402 pilots are NWA pilots. Because of that, a DAL pilot that would not yet have been offered a class date at DAL at the time of constructive notice, is senior to an NWA pilot who was hired in the year 2000.

Carl

Wait a sec... You are saying that the last two classes hired at DAL (4/21/08 and 5/5/08) are not privy to any fences? These pilots were offered, signed letters of employment from DAL well in advance of any merger announcement on April 14, 2008.

You NWA guys amaze me... You have had no problem screwing over the Republic guys, but heaven forbid something happen to you. Now you think current DAL pilots are less equal than other DAL other pilots on the same list... ??

I don't know of any merger where the arbitrator determined a list in advance of Date of Corp Closure. I think this whole process is a first time.

I think that since both pilot groups/ airlines stopped hiring about the same time, it will probably include everyone.

The fences proposed by NWA protect all Captain Seats and widebody FO seats, they do not apply to any narrowbody FO seats. They calculated a number of protected seats* for each jet and came up with a number. Any seats beyond that number (i.e. growth) get shared 1:1. There is an "insufficient bidder" clause that will give that seat a pre-merger pilot from the "other side" if there aren't enough bidders from the protected side. I'm probably over-simplifying it. If you have access to the transcripts I highly recommend you read them.

* the methodology for calculating the number of protected seats is tremendously different between the DAL proposal and the NWA proposal.

When you say things like this, you only display your ignorance of history. I would explain it (again), but I'd like to avoid the responses of: "Shut up Carl, nobody here cares about ancient history."

Carl

Is the 767ER a widebody in the NWA proposal? Or is it just super premium widebody FO seats that are fenced? BTW, love that avatar, where did you find it?

The 767-400 and 777 are the only DAL FO seats that are protected in the NWA proposal, so yeah, I guess that's what we're calling super extra premium. I hope we never get A380's.

Yeah, I need to get a little more creative with the avatar.