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-   -   NWA fence proposal (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mergers-acquisitions/32655-nwa-fence-proposal.html)

Eric Stratton 10-25-2008 01:28 PM

Does anything change with the fences if airplanes start moving all around?

For example, if delta decides to swap nwa's seattle a330 flying with delta nyc 767 flying? could nwa's proposal essentially close the seattle base for them?

nwaf16dude 10-25-2008 01:32 PM

I'm guessing here, but the seat protection goes with the seat, wherever it moves to.

Rotorhead 10-25-2008 07:35 PM

So DAL proposed the 1,000 phantom pilots and the not-so-equitable ratio. NWA proposed DOH and a fence. Either side obviously sees the other as extreme so where is middle? A real ratio with no 1,000 phantom pilots and a dynamic seniority list. That's my bet, in the middle.

DAL, did you guys come up with 1,000 phantom pilots on your own, or does someone really dig sci-fi?

Scoop 10-25-2008 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by Rotorhead (Post 485704)
So DAL proposed the 1,000 phantom pilots and the not-so-equitable ratio. NWA proposed DOH and a fence. Either side obviously sees the other as extreme so where is middle? A real ratio with no 1,000 phantom pilots and a dynamic seniority list. That's my bet, in the middle.

DAL, did you guys come up with 1,000 phantom pilots on your own, or does someone really dig sci-fi?


Those would be the pilots flying the phantom 787. :) Or perhaps the Mesaba flow up guys who did not start at NW yet - relax only kidding. Seriously though, the only time I have ever heard of Phantom pilots is on this message board by NW guys. I reviewed most of the transcripts and never saw a reference to anything close to that. It is the Halloween season so Phantoms are a definite possiblity. :eek:

I think the arbitrators will rule in between the two proposals if we can not agree on a list ourselves - its what arbitrators do. It was even on Seinfeld - remember when Newman ordered Elaine and Kramer to "cut the bike in half."
Scoop

skywriter 10-26-2008 09:13 AM

Carl
About Fences are they really all that good if we go back in History did not NWA pilots loose some with Republic Boston base getting smaller and Republic pilots going to MSP from there and bumping NWA pilots out of MSP?

Carl Spackler 10-26-2008 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by skywriter (Post 485912)
Carl
About Fences are they really all that good if we go back in History did not NWA pilots loose some with Republic Boston base getting smaller and Republic pilots going to MSP from there and bumping NWA pilots out of MSP?

Fences aren't great, but both proposals have them for a reason. It's the only way to protect pre-merger status. If there's a better way, maybe the arbitrators will find it.

Carl

Justdoinmyjob 10-26-2008 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 485916)
Fences aren't great, but both proposals have them for a reason. It's the only way to protect pre-merger status. If there's a better way, maybe the arbitrators will find it.

Carl

Keep in mind that management doesn't want fences and from my understanding, does not have to accept any arbitration which has fences in it.

NuGuy 10-26-2008 09:17 PM


Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 486182)
Keep in mind that management doesn't want fences and from my understanding, does not have to accept any arbitration which has fences in it.

Not correct.

Nu

DeadHead 10-27-2008 03:14 AM

Does this SLI make anyone else feel like a bartender getting the leftovers at the bar at the end of the night?

Sure your gonna get laid, but no matter what you probably won't enjoy it and regardless, your gonna wake up in bed together.

Justdoinmyjob 10-27-2008 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 486269)
Not correct.

Nu

Where does it say that management has to accept the outcome of this unconditionally? It is only binding on the pilots, not management.

You say "Not correct," yet offer no proof to back up your claim. I said it was "my understanding," that the company doesn't have to accept the list, and that understanding is based on this excerpt from an DALPA FAQ doc:

3. What is the role of the company in seniority integration? Can the company unilaterally implement its own list? Must the company approve any integrated list the union develops?

The company cannot unilaterally implement an integrated seniority list (see Section 1.D.8 of the PWA). Under the PWA, however, an integrated seniority list developed by ALPA must be submitted to the Company for its approval. Section 1.D.8.b. of the PWA contains specific timelines and procedures for the company to accept ALPA’s integrated list or, in the absence of such acceptance, for potential arbitration between ALPA and the company for selecting between a merged list proposed by ALPA or one proposed by the company. The ALPA/NWA agreement, however, does not provide for this type of dispute resolution between ALPA and the company, so these conflicting terms between the agreements may need to be resolved in the negotiation of transition terms.


What I get out of this is that they do not have to unilaterally accept the list "As Is."
The last sentance seems to suggest that once we finish with the SLI, then round 2 starts with the company should they find any aspects of the SLI (re fences) unacceptable.

Or can you provide information that shows differently.


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