Airline Pilot Central Forums - NWA fence proposal

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- - NWA fence proposal (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mergers-acquisitions/32655-nwa-fence-proposal.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 486323)

Does this SLI make anyone else feel like a bartender getting the leftovers at the bar at the end of the night?

Sure your gonna get laid, but no matter what you probably won't enjoy it and regardless, your gonna wake up in bed together.

I wouldn't know DeadHead. Women don't seem to be attracted to the scent of gopher pesticides. I've never understood that.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 486409)

Where does it say that management has to accept the outcome of this unconditionally? It is only binding on the pilots, not management.

You say "Not correct," yet offer no proof to back up your claim. I said it was "my understanding," that the company doesn't have to accept the list, and that understanding is based on this excerpt from an DALPA FAQ doc:

3. What is the role of the company in seniority integration? Can the company unilaterally implement its own list? Must the company approve any integrated list the union develops?

The company cannot unilaterally implement an integrated seniority list (see Section 1.D.8 of the PWA). Under the PWA, however, an integrated seniority list developed by ALPA must be submitted to the Company for its approval. Section 1.D.8.b. of the PWA contains specific timelines and procedures for the company to accept ALPA’s integrated list or, in the absence of such acceptance, for potential arbitration between ALPA and the company for selecting between a merged list proposed by ALPA or one proposed by the company. The ALPA/NWA agreement, however, does not provide for this type of dispute resolution between ALPA and the company, so these conflicting terms between the agreements may need to be resolved in the negotiation of transition terms.

What I get out of this is that they do not have to unilaterally accept the list "As Is."
The last sentance seems to suggest that once we finish with the SLI, then round 2 starts with the company should they find any aspects of the SLI (re fences) unacceptable.

Or can you provide information that shows differently.

The terms you cite above from the DAL PWA have been overwritten by the new JPWA and several side letters relating to the agreed SLI process. I've been told by our folks that know all of these documents that neither management team has any role in the matter. DAL can only accept the list...period.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16 (Post 486468)

Thats why NWA's proposed 10 year fence is ridiculous and totally unrealistic. As I said previously, any SLI proposal that contains 10 yr. fences illustrates how indefenseable it is on its own merits and clearly something that Delta would reject outright. Try again NWA

You're right Cog. NWALPA should amend their SLI proposal to straight DOH with no fences. Then it would be equally extreme as the DALPA proposal, but according to you, at least it would be defensible.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 486575)

There are issues with or without a fence. Which would you rather? Protect what you have for a while or throw it all up in the air and let an arbitrator decide where the chips fall? At this point I don't see how we will agree on a list, both sides are ridiculous to the other.

I think that's probably true on this forum, but not with our negotiators. Unlike the usual DAL suspects on these threads that would somehow justify a staple job of NWA pilots, the DAL negotiators know their proposal is way out on the edge. The NWA negotiators also know the mistakes and extremes in their proposal.

I still think a negotiated SLI could happen.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 486848)

Carl,
Read my post under "The Top 1500 positions" for a little perspective. An Apr '87 NWA pilot goes from 36% at NWA to 22% at the new Delta under your plan. Talk about a windfall! Under the Delta plan, he only loses 2% to 38% and I bet his bidding opportunities are actually better after SOC. Conversely, 2 different Delta guys lose 7 and 9% under the NWA plan but under the Delta plan, they gain only 1% and zero% under the Delta plan

Cog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16 (Post 486863)

You're leaving out the key point, the FENCE is the ONLY way that list can be presented. Those guys have a gain in Seniority in only a seniority # discussion not in career progression. Career progression wise those pilots on both sides have the same career advancement they have right now. The % during the fence is irrelevant thus the point of the fence. When the fence is over the list is equaled out and actually the DAL side will hold the top of the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 486870)

Super,
There will not a be a system wide 10 yr. fence! No way, no how. Its laughable. Instead lets just not do the SLI for 10 yrs. You guys fly your fleet, we'll fly ours. See how ridiculous both those ideas sound?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16 (Post 486863)

You still have not addressed how it is OK that I and other NWA pilots lose 5%........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16 (Post 486889)

Super,
There will not a be a system wide 10 yr. fence! No way, no how. Its laughable. Instead lets just not do the SLI for 10 yrs. You guys fly your fleet, we'll fly ours. See how ridiculous both those ideas sound?

You DO know that DALPA agreed to arbitration...don't you?

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16 (Post 486889)

Thats YOUR opinion, maybe there will be a fence, maybe there wont be. I assure you neither you nor I KNOW what WILL happen. You can pretend you KNOW all you want but all i have done is offer my opinion. You consistently say everyone is wrong who has a difference of opinion, why? Are you right? Could it be you're wrong? :confused:

More likely is that the arbitrators WILL decide whats fair and whats not. BTW it wasnt a system wide fence, only the listed positions would be fenced under the NWA proposal and that gives the company the freedom to do what they need to do in order to staff the airline. Its just a proposal, just like your sides. Neither one will be the final out come so stop getting so worked up over the details. I assure you that by arguing on here who is right and wrong is pointless and wont change the outcome.