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Old 10-28-2008, 08:05 AM   #61  
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They are planning on DHing us to and fro, but if there is a long fence they will just make a large bid and have us deal with it. Short fences preserves our bases.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:07 AM   #62  
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BTW, tsquare, I think that no matter when they open the other bases for bid, they will be new bases for us or NWA. Because of this, I would assume that a move would be company paid. That is unless we negotiate it away.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:38 AM   #63  
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As an 87 NWA hire I agree with your viewpoint. I believe the 10 year fence protects the WB Captains only. 10 year fence is too difficult for the new DAL company to administer. (I've seen the diversity that a 20 year fence does to the pilot group ain't fun) Just give me a seniority number I can use and bid.

I agree. A fence unfairly locks someone out. A good deal for one and a bad deal for another.


Having said that, the DAL proposal unfairly places the 2000-2001 hire NWA pilot below DAL 2007 hire. I'd be happy with a 're-visit' of the bottom of the list and accept the DAL proposal. My career expectations? A paycheck every 2 weeks.

And the NWA proposal unfairly moves the DAL pilot back a signifigant %.
If you now sit at X% on your senority list a fair SLI will have you at the same % afterwards. Who cares what date someone else was hired if your % place and their % place on the senority list remains the same after SLI.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:08 PM   #64  
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It seems the NW guys are very enamoured with a 10 year fence. How about we settle with the NW pilot 10 year fence and the DAL pilot SL proposal? (TIC)
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:54 PM   #65  
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Carl-
I don't know where you're getting that. Unless there are some unpublished secret documents.

Here's the language from the JOINT contract that we all just ratified:


Section 1.D.8.

b. the pilot seniority lists of the Company and the acquired airline will be integrated pursuant to Association merger policy if both groups are represented by the Association, or if the airmen of the acquired airline are not represented by the Association, then pursuant to a method to be determined by the Delta MEC.
1) However, in either case, the integrated seniority list produced by the Association, including any attendant conditions and restrictions, will be subject to the approval of the Company, and will be submitted to the Company for approval within twelve months of the date the Company or any affiliate acquired control of the acquired airline. The Company will provide the Association with its decision as to approval or disapproval (including its reasons for disapproval) of the integrated seniority list produced by the Association within two months following receipt of


the integrated seniority list. If the Association does not without good cause produce and present an integrated seniority list to the Company for approval within twelve months of the date the Company or any affiliate acquired control of the acquired airline, the pilot and airman seniority lists of the Company and the acquired airline, respectively, will be integrated pursuant to the arbitration procedures set forth in
Section 1 D. 8. b. 2).
2) If the Company rejects the list produced by the Association, the Association may modify the list and resubmit it to the Company for approval within three months after the date of such rejection, or at the election of the Association, the Association and the Company will submit to an arbitrator mutually selected by the Association and the Company for a final and binding decision, the choice of a list produced by the Association and a list produced by the Company. If the seniority
list integration issue is to be submitted to an arbitrator and the Company and the Association cannot agree on the selection of an arbitrator, the arbitrator will be selected from the list of arbitrators referred to in Section 19, utilizing the alternate strike-off method, with the right to first strike a name from such list determined by the toss of a coin.
3) If the Association does not resubmit a modified list within the permitted time period or does so resubmit a modified list but it is rejected by the Company, then the matter will be decided through the arbitration procedure set forth in Section 1 D. 8. b. 2).


No, just published, unsecret documents. Check the "Acceptance of Seniority List" document. It overrides this section, with the caveot that it applies only to the DAL/NWA merger.

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Old 10-28-2008, 02:10 PM   #66  
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And the NWA proposal unfairly moves the DAL pilot back a signifigant %.
If you now sit at X% on your senority list a fair SLI will have you at the same % afterwards. Who cares what date someone else was hired if your % place and their % place on the senority list remains the same after SLI.
That's funny, because DALs proposed list put me nowhere near my current seniority. I moved down considerably. And the most junior DAL guy ended up with 400 guys underneath him, shooting him right up the list. That seems very fair.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:19 PM   #67  
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That's funny, because DALs proposed list put me nowhere near my current seniority. I moved down considerably. And the most junior DAL guy ended up with 400 guys underneath him, shooting him right up the list. That seems very fair.
What's more important is that the DAL proposal has EVERY NWA pilot being junior to a DAL pilot who was hired after him, like it was purposefully massaged to achieve the result.

At least the NWA proposal only says, DOH, let the chips fall where they may.

So, is there anywhere on the NWA proposed list where DAL pilots wind up in a better relative position with DOH? I'm too weary to even check.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:24 PM   #68  
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I thought this was an interesting little ditty in the letter we got from the merger committee this week:

>>The process will move on after we have a chance to catch a short break and see our families, but the exact path to a merged list is uncertain. As the Arbitrators suggested at the end of the hearings last Thursday, SLI negotiations between us and the Delta Merger Committee may resume again soon. The arbitration panel has offered to mediate, and we may take them up on that offer if the direct talks make that appear promising. Or, we may still end up with an arbitrated award.<<

What is interesting to me (trying to be a dispassionate observer here) in the two lists is how far apart they are, as everyone has pointed out. The difference for me between the two is 909 numbers, that is hudge.

Here is hoping that we can get this thing worked out on our own. It will suck but I think the 3 wise men's list will suck worse.

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Old 10-28-2008, 03:33 PM   #69  
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The negotiated lists are not this far apart. They are a lot closer than this.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:36 PM   #70  
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The negotiated lists are not this far apart. They are a lot closer than this.
Things are not really as they seem? I have hread that, too.
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