NWA fence proposal
10-28-2008, 03:39 PM
#71
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by NuGuy
No, just published, unsecret documents. Check the "Acceptance of Seniority List" document. It overrides this section, with the caveot that it applies only to the DAL/NWA merger. Nu
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You are correct. I forgot about that.
However, that letter also has a loophole that you could drive a 747 through. Management doesn't have to accept any fences that would
"4) significantly increase the Company's costs."
I think this argument is probably academic anyway. There won't be 10 year fences and management will not dispute the list. Just my guesses.
10-28-2008, 03:53 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by Ferd149
I thought this was an interesting little ditty in the letter we got from the merger committee this week:
>>The process will move on after we have a chance to catch a short break and see our families, but the exact path to a merged list is uncertain. As the Arbitrators suggested at the end of the hearings last Thursday, SLI negotiations between us and the Delta Merger Committee may resume again soon. The arbitration panel has offered to mediate, and we may take them up on that offer if the direct talks make that appear promising. Or, we may still end up with an arbitrated award.<<
What is interesting to me (trying to be a dispassionate observer here) in the two lists is how far apart they are, as everyone has pointed out. The difference for me between the two is 909 numbers, that is hudge.
Here is hoping that we can get this thing worked out on our own. It will suck but I think the 3 wise men's list will suck worse.
Ferd
>>The process will move on after we have a chance to catch a short break and see our families, but the exact path to a merged list is uncertain. As the Arbitrators suggested at the end of the hearings last Thursday, SLI negotiations between us and the Delta Merger Committee may resume again soon. The arbitration panel has offered to mediate, and we may take them up on that offer if the direct talks make that appear promising. Or, we may still end up with an arbitrated award.<<
What is interesting to me (trying to be a dispassionate observer here) in the two lists is how far apart they are, as everyone has pointed out. The difference for me between the two is 909 numbers, that is hudge.
Here is hoping that we can get this thing worked out on our own. It will suck but I think the 3 wise men's list will suck worse.
Ferd
10-28-2008, 04:08 PM
#73
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by Cogf16
Agreed. I haven't seen the specifics and rationale behind the bottom of the list but I certainly understand the angst of NWA guys. However, the top of the list is even more agregious. Although it is purely my OPINION, I don't think a long, big fence is manageable, realistic or something this group wants to live under. One other thing... as an 87 hire, around 35% or so systemwide %, what can you hold? I am an Aug '88 hire, 22% and hold line holder 767 Capt but could hold a line on 767ER (intl) or junior 767-400 or 777 Capt. A big disparity compared to you guys.
Cog
Cog
10-28-2008, 04:16 PM
#74
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Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
Originally Posted by flyguy1
I hope you understand why there is a disparity. You have seen you windfall due to past retirements, and we would be seeing ours over the next 5-7 years. No NWA pilot wants to lose that "pot of gold" that should be in our future....not yours.
10-28-2008, 04:38 PM
#75
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Hey Ferd, the difference for me is 1490 numbers. How'd you like that one?
For example, one of the things that sticks out on our list is what I call "saw toothing". IE, we hired when you didn't and you hired when we didn't.
Last edited by Ferd149; 10-28-2008 at 05:33 PM.
10-28-2008, 09:21 PM
#76
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,838
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
The negotiated lists are not this far apart. They are a lot closer than this.
It could be down to a couple of numbers scratched on a napkin at the bar.
Nu
10-29-2008, 02:26 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Yes, it is that close.
You agree with me more than you think. We both want what our side is bringing to negotiations because the fact is that it is better for us. We are all just being a tad selfish. Don't ya think. I think a straight 7/5 ratio is about where it will be. That will help and hurt some. But remember if we do not give the company the efficiency that they need, we will see little to no growth in the mainline sector.
You agree with me more than you think. We both want what our side is bringing to negotiations because the fact is that it is better for us. We are all just being a tad selfish. Don't ya think. I think a straight 7/5 ratio is about where it will be. That will help and hurt some. But remember if we do not give the company the efficiency that they need, we will see little to no growth in the mainline sector.
10-29-2008, 02:54 AM
#78
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by flyguy1
I hope you understand why there is a disparity. You have seen you windfall due to past retirements, and we would be seeing ours over the next 5-7 years. No NWA pilot wants to lose that "pot of gold" that should be in our future....not yours.
10-29-2008, 06:40 AM
#79
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Dont' mean to start a war, but that is a weak spot in the DAL SLI fences. I don't know of any merger where the arbitrator didn't treat post constructive notice pilots differently than pre constructive notice. In the DAL SLI proposal, some post constructive notice DAL pilots are senior to NWA pre constructive notice pilots. If the arbitrators agreed to that, I think it would be the first time.
10-29-2008, 08:04 AM
#80
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Reroute
NALPA doesn't get to unilaterally determine who is, or is not a post constructive notice pilot. I'm sure that it is the position of DALPA that pilots who were interviewed and offered employment prior to April 14 are not post constructive notice pilots.
Carl
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