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Old 12-10-2008, 04:32 PM   #1  
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Default Roberts Award

Does this award overule or wipe out the Roberts award?

I ask because as I understand it, now that the fences are down a Republic pilot can bid an opening on the 74 or 330, but he/she cannot displace a pilot off those aircraft.

Is there the potential that a Republic pilot who gets displaced off his aircraft cannot bump a NWA pilot out of his 330 seat but can bump a Delta pilot out of his 764 seat?
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:17 PM   #2  
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Does this award overule or wipe out the Roberts award?

I ask because as I understand it, now that the fences are down a Republic pilot can bid an opening on the 74 or 330, but he/she cannot displace a pilot off those aircraft.

Is there the potential that a Republic pilot who gets displaced off his aircraft cannot bump a NWA pilot out of his 330 seat but can bump a Delta pilot out of his 764 seat?
Roberts award dropped dead 1/1/2006. Ratioing of positions stopped on that date. Never was a fence....there were simply allotments for redbook pilots on equipment. When those allotments were staffed additional positions went 1:1 green/red. There were some very senior greenbooks on NWA widebodies soon after the merger. They kept their Republic DOH but had redbooks junior to them fill allocations on aircraft.

You are correct that greenbooks cannot displace anyone off aircraft simply by virtue of the Roberts award ending. There was "no bump/flush" language. Now that Robert's award is over everyone simply bids for vacancies purely by seniority. So, to your question, if a greenbook pilot (or any NWA pilot) gets displaced they CAN bump into any position occupied by someone junior to them. On the APA (like DAL's AE) effective Jan 06, there was a somewhat junior greenbook 747FO who got displaced from his seat in ANC. He bumped into 747-400 Captain because there were NWA pilots (redbooks) junior to him in the position and as of 1/1/06 there were no longer any Roberts award restrictions.

So, for example, if a NW greenbook 757 CA gets displaced, he/she CAN bump a junior NW pilot out of the 330 seat and, if the DAL displacement language works the same way, could also choose to bump a DAL 764 CA out of the seat IF they are junior to him, since the 764 is not fenced. Only after SOC of course.

Any real "former" red/green guys please correct any of this if it's wrong.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:50 PM   #3  
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You're correct except for one thing. The Roberts award did not drop dead. The Roberts award was a seniority list integration. The integration produced a Date of Hire list and 20 years worth of conditions and restrictions. The conditions and restrictions portion of the Roberts award expired in 2006. The Date of Hire based seniority numbers portion of the Roberts award can never expire.

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Old 12-12-2008, 11:00 AM   #4  
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The Date of Hire based seniority numbers portion of the Roberts award can never expire.

Carl
But can just be superceded by the Bloch Award?.......
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:21 AM   #5  
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I believe there was a fence in the Roberts award on widebodies already on the property at NWA at the time of the merger. No Republic pilots were allowed to bid those slots. Growth aircraft delivered after the merger were available to both sides via a ratio. Replacement aircraft for pre merger NWA aircraft were also fenced for the 20 year time frame.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:17 PM   #6  
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I believe there was a fence in the Roberts award on widebodies already on the property at NWA at the time of the merger. No Republic pilots were allowed to bid those slots. Growth aircraft delivered after the merger were available to both sides via a ratio. Replacement aircraft for pre merger NWA aircraft were also fenced for the 20 year time frame.
Incorrect. There were red/green quotas, not fences, for certain seats...most WBs had red favoring quotas, and left seats on the MD-80/DC-9s/some 757 favored the green side.

With that said, all seats were open to both sets of pilots right away. Senior green guys were sitting in WB left seats almost immediately after the award.

If there were insufficent bidders for a quota'ed seat, then it went to anyone who could hold it. Also don't forget that it was a DOH list. Once a green guy got into a seat (or vice versa), he exercised his full DOH for bidding purposes (schedules, vacations, etc), which often meant that red guys were pushed downward. Many, if not most, redbook guys moved downard on their aircraft's bid list from day 1.

Growth aircraft adjusted the quotas. The arbitrators were VERY generous in what they considered replacement aircraft, but were subject to the same quotas as the aircraft they replaced.

This system did play havoc with blue bidding. If you were a blue book guy holding a decent seat, say left seat in the 320, and you got displaced, you normally would have held recall rights (first right of return over someone who had never held it). But some arbitration in the early 90s held that the Robert's quotos overrode recall rights, so a blue guys recall rights would be trumped by a red/green guy who had never held the position.

All in all, I view the lack of significant fences in this award a plus, not a minus.

Nu
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:46 PM   #7  
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I agree with nu, lack of fences is a plus and a big operational bonus.

As red guys retired, green guys were able to get into red seats due to insufficent bidders. So a junior red guy never got senior but he did have earlier access to higher paying equipment. A young red friend of mine called it "running in front of the green wave". You could never be senior, so you might as well go make money.

Another point to add is ALL seats on the airline were coded red/green. The only way a new hire held anything was insufficent bidders. That is why us blue guys only had recall rights with each other, no seat was blue.

Confused yet........don't worry, it don't matter no more!
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:27 PM   #8  
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Red, Green, Blue...

Stop The Insanity!



Aren't you glad all that is over with?

The lack of fences will be nice for you guys. 5 years from SOC...bid what you want where you want. Heck, only the whale, 777, and plastic jet (if it shows up) or its 777 replacement are fenced...so we all will have lots-o-options. The future is bright!
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Old 12-13-2008, 05:56 PM   #9  
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Another point to add is ALL seats on the airline were coded red/green. The only way a new hire held anything was insufficent bidders. That is why us blue guys only had recall rights with each other, no seat was blue.
Not all seats..just CA/ FO...cuz who'd want to fly 747-S/O..even though it paid more than any F/O seat below 757?
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