NWA/DAL Information Exchange...
 

Now that the seniority list is out and everybody is pizzed at everyone for some reason or the other, I am ready to move on. I would love to see what kind of flying the 737 does out of JFK and ATL. I also have a few questions about how things are done over there.

I'm thinking that maybe a few old DAL guys are interested in NWA "stuff" as well. I know, you hate our bases, our airplanes and our everything else. But, maybe you want to know what Asia is like. Maybe you want to know what flying a French airplane is like (I can't tell ya). Or, maybe you want to know what it's like to de-ice. :D

Anyway, maybe this can become a place where we --the New Delta guys-- come to exchange information.

So, I'll start off: Can anyone tell me what kind of trips the 737 flies out of JFK and ATL? I know it's all subject to change, but I like having as much information as possible.

Please, don't take it as if I'm inquiring about "your" airplanes, because in my opinion things are going to be swapped around so much in the next year or so that my 737 inquiry is more likely to be what the 320 is going to do; and if you ask about what the 330 does out of DTW or SEA is more than likely is an exploration of what the 767 might be doing out of those places.

The bottom line is that I for one am ready to move past the seniority list and look to the future. That was two days ago and there is nothing I can do about it.

Thanks in advance and feel free to ask whatever you like. :o


New K Now

New K Now,

I *think* you guys have access to DeltaNet now.

Here is where you go:

Log in.

Click on Departments / Flight Operations if it DOES NOT default to "FLIGHT OPERATIONS - PILOT" at the top left.

Click on "Pilot resources and scheduling" in the left column.

That will bring up a screen where you can see all the bid packages.

I copied this sampling from the NYC 73N (737-800) Adobe .pdf package so you can see some sample trips and destinations:

____________________________________

THERE MAY BE A CHANGE OF LAYOVER HOTELS, THE LATEST HOTEL NAME WILL BE DISPLAYED ON THE ROTATIONS IN DBMS.
NYC BASE B-73N PILOT PAIRINGS
#4001 FR EFFECTIVE DEC. 05 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 16.20
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 1671 EWR 1720 SLC 2030 5.10 738
1586 SLC 2120 BOI 2232 1.12 8.42/11.20
BOI 31.37/DOUBLETREE CLUB 6.22BL .00CRD 6.22TL
C 1153 BOI 0739 SLC 0848 1.09
1592 SLC 1000 EWR 1637 4.37 8.28/13.00
5.46BL .00CRD 5.46TL
.00DPA 1.48TRP
TOTALS---13.56TL 12.08BL 1.48CR TAFB 48.47
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4351 TU EFFECTIVE DEC. 30 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 5.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 1297 JFK 0600 ATL 0846 2.46 738
1030 ATL 0950 JFK 1209 2.19 7.39/12.00
5.05BL .00CRD 5.05TL
.10DPA .00TRP
TOTALS--- 5.15TL 5.05BL .10CR TAFB 7.39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4352 MO EFFECTIVE DEC. 01 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 6.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 601 JFK 0700 LAX 1021 6.21 738 M 7.51/12.30
LAX 18.14/WILSHIRE GRAND 6.21BL .00CRD 6.21TL
B 1172 LAX 0605 SLC 0902 1.57
094 SLC 0950 JFK 1641 4.51 9.06/13.00
6.48BL .00CRD 6.48TL
.00DPA .00TRP
TOTALS---13.09TL 13.09BL .00CR TAFB 35.11
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4353 MO EFFECTIVE DEC. 08 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 6.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 601 JFK 0700 LAX 1021 6.21 738 M 7.51/12.30
LAX 19.19/WILSHIRE GRAND 6.21BL .00CRD 6.21TL
B 1768 *LAX 0710 CVG 1423 4.13
1130 CVG 1510 BDL 1701 1.51 8.21/13.00
BDL 11.29/RAMADA INN AIRPORT 6.04BL .00CRD 6.04TL
C 1129 BDL 0600 CVG 0813* 2.13
1211 CVG 0905 PHX 1109 4.04 8.39/12.00
PHX 17.21/HILTON SQUAW PEAK 6.17BL .00CRD 6.17TL
D 638 PHX 0600 JFK 1247 4.47 6.17/13.00
4.47BL .00CRD 4.47TL
.00DPA .00TRP
TOTALS---23.29TL 23.29BL .00CR TAFB 79.17
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

Also, if you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can e-mail you the bid packets if you can't get at them.

I think it is safe to say that most of the younger DAL guys are looking at moving down from the 767/757, 737-800, or MD88/90 to DC 9 or 320/319. Or moving form ATL, SLC to DTW, MSP. So given that fact I would not think there would be much interest in the NW equiptment until it is time to be displaced to it. Go figure.

Not to mention the chance of being furloughed if they get rid of the DC9 and 747-200 after SOC which I think is very possible by the company just so they don't have to furlough out of seniority order.

Most of the Jr DAL guys had looked forward to having a fair amount of new hires coming on after them to fill our upcoming deliveries but now they have 70 lower paying soon to be retired jets and the crews to go with them that mostly came in above them on the seniority list. I would say the majority of the old DAL contingent is fairly depressed about their future upgrades and will see stagnation or backwards movement as the new DAL (NW) guys move into bigger better paying airplanes and some of our bases. Yes, I realize NW brought the 74 and 330 but for the most part the vast opportunities for NW guys to bid the 76/75 and 800 is a + for NW and a - for DAL. Not to mention still having your DB +our 401K. Things look pretty dim on the DAL side right now.

I predict 1000 furloughs after SOC, DC9 and 747-200 gone and no growth for next 4.5 years. I would expect the furloughed guys to come back as the retirements start up again in 2011 which happens to be about the same time they expect to start adding capacity back according to RA at the investors meeting. I hope I am wrong.

But hey that is just my opinion and it is not worth much.

I'll offer up the Franco-American A320/319 analysis for my interested DAL brothers and sisters. I fly out of MEM and it has been the best non-military flying I've done. I love the airplane. The sidestick is fantastic, and takes about 5 minutes to get used to. The tray table is totally civilized. I haven't gotten any egg or cheesecake on my trousers in five years. It takes a while to get used to the magic, no doubt, and everyone has had a few "magic moments", but that is what NASAP is for! The flying is brain dead easy, the legs are generally 2-3 a day and I suspect DAL will load them up on longer routes and fly the MD more like the 9, not good for the MD brethren. We do a lot of Canada, and Caribbean, West Coast, and LaGarbage. We also go to the Fargo, Bozeman, Missoula, Bismarck, and Helena's of the world. And Chicago Midway for an A game challenge. Long term, a boatload of NBA charters, 16 teams for 10 years. I'm on one now. DH to SAT, layover, fly to MIA with your Atlanta Hawks at 1400, layover 31:00, fly to ATL, layup for 24, fly to CLE, and MDW, 14 hrs, then YYZ, and home to MEM. When our rig kicks in, even better. I love them. And I've been based in MEM almost 20 years. Not like working for an airline with 12,500 pilots. I usually remember something about everyone I fly with, kids, Collierville, Germantown, country boy, or downtowner. We generally discuss pork shoulder, SEC sports, GunAmmo, and kids and wife instead of J O B. The traffic is nil except for two hours a day, the city, messed up, but unique and has it's own very valuable positives. My kids go to catholic schools, and I would not move from here for anything, period. It is quite simply, my home. Public schools are not so hot, but some are very good, Hope scholarships to Tennessee colleges are gimmees. No state income tax, a lower cost of living than just about anywhere, and if you like the outdoor sports, great hunting, fishing, golf, stumpin' catfish, and coon huntin'. Navy Millington for BX, commissary for mil types, TnANG MEM for a great guard unit, and a boatload of Navy, Marine slots for reservists at BUPERS at Millington. If I were an empty nester, I'd jump on one of the homes at Harbortown, The Bluffs, or one of the condos along the river right now. Probably, they won't stay down long, but I'd love to watch Ol Man River out my window as I wane out of this career. I live in Lakeland, on the lake and boat, kayak, fish, run, and generally forget everything else at home. Two miles away is the greatest shooting facility in the nation, lighted skeet/trap, sporting clays, cowboy action village, combat range, 600 yard highpower, various distance rifle/pistol covered ranges, fishing lakes, a club house and BBQ pavilions. Any given day there you meet all kinds, shoot, visit, and leave with new friends to go eat. If it sounds like I'm sold on the bus and MEM, you're right. It's why I'm not so upset over 1600 numbers going in front of me. I really didn't want to commute to a widebody. Now, I don't have to worry about it! To quote Pete from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou", "Come on in Boys, The Water is Fine".

Thanks Pack. I will try to get those retirement numbers for you. We have a program that gets them for us from our seniority and above, but I have to think about where the overall numbers would be.

Your best bet might be to get Super or someone that was hired in the last year to run their retirement numbers on EZopenboard.

Oh, I tried the DeltaNet thing. I don't think we have full access yet.

New K Now

NWA pilots have virtually no access within Deltanet. We basically get to view the Delta Daily newsletter. Mmmmm...scintillating!!

We're told NWA pilots will have deeper access to Deltanet in the "near future." Probably at some point after bid period 5. :)

Carl

Never mind -

I believe FDX is much closer to furloughs than hiring. At least according to the FDX guys. Besides the junior domiciles are Hong Kong and Paris which may sound exciting but FDX does not provide enough compensation to cover the astronomical cost of living. I believe they are offering a couple of round trip tickets a year to get you back to the states. Sounds like fun to me.

We don't have ANY access to your information.. as far as I know.

Steve

Neverminding. Trust me Bar, NWA guys aren't looking to exercise their super seniority. For me, I know there is going to be a lot of movement of aircraft and I just want to be able to do a little planning. Do I get frozen on something right now, or wait to see where things will shake down.

For the record, from what I am seeing on our board, a lot of us are not happy.

New K Now

PS. Some of our bases are not bad. I'd take DTW or MSP over NYC anyday.

Ok ...I'm lazy and haven't studied it, nor does it really affect me (premerger Delta) what is bid period 5...5 months of trip bidding? No laughs please.:confused:

ts,

Is there anything you want to know. :rolleyes:

Kingbird87,

Thanks for the MEM report. I'm bidding MEM first chance I get (please stay open). Can you tell me about the type of trips out of there? I'll be driving 3 hours (beats driving 2 to get on an airplane to commute), so 3-4 days would be ideal. 320 vs. DC9 on trip types and so on. Are they a lot of MEM-XXX-MEM-XXX-MEM trips or do you see a lot of different places?

Anyone have a current NWA category list?

Thanks

I lived on Mud Island/Harbortown for five years. I had a great time being close to Beale Street and the best Blues music in the country. The city leaves a lot to be desired. Crime is bad, bums everywhere, but the traffic is easy compared to ATL. I loved coming over the bridge at night onto Mud Island and driving into what felt like small resort. The sunsets were the best of any city I've been to and your cost of living is tiny compared to other cities. You can also live in nice communities and never be more than 25 minutes from the airport.

My wife is from Memphis...grew up in Bartlett and went to Briarcrest Baptist and then Ole Miss. No more ties there now but I use to enjoy visting especially "Memphis in May"...good BBQ. We plan to bring the kids there next year to visit and see the King's house. BTW Elvis' Convair 880 is an old Delta 880 he bought out of the desert. Is it still there? I visited in the 1980's. Neat Pictures of it coming down EP BLVD at The Lisa Marie - Convair 880 Jet - Lisa Marie Presley, By: Elvis Australia

Be happy to share my knowledge of the LAX 767 domestic and 767-ER ops if anyone is interested.

Absolutely. Where do your trips go and for how long? And forgive me for asking agian, but if you are a LAX 767-ER pilot does that mean that you cannot fly any domestic trips out of there? I'm slow to grasp the concept. :D

Moon,

Looks like they have some good trips on the 320. The vast majority are 4 or 5 day trips. Looks like the layovers are all over the system plus some Mexico stuff. Now that I look at them, the DC-9 trips look pretty good too. Not as good as the 320 but still better than the -9 trips out of DTW. (What have I been doing all these years?) PM me if you want a bid packet. I don't want to put hotel info out...

New K Now

Heyas nK,

Not to sound toolish, but I am recommending NWA guys do exactly that. Bid the best paying piece of equipment, as soon as you can. If that means commuting to ATL for left seat on the -88 versus lounging in DTW on the 330 right seat, then so be it.

With the severe dilution of the short term attrition and loss of position during the final years, the mid-junior NWA pilot MUST bid to start making maximum bank now to compensate for loss of future income. To do this effectively, you need to take advantage of any displacement bids.

This is an unavoidable consequence of the SLI award, and the one bright spot for NWA guys. It is what it is.

Nu

Have at it. I will take your 320 flying any day. I will do Europe and Asia when the kids are in High School and just come to ya for money!

ACL,

You WANT to fly the French thing, after flying the wonderful Boeing? :D

What's your source say about where the 320's will be in 3 years?

That's funny. Could you be any more "Doom and Gloom"? :rolleyes:

Not in MSP or DTW. Err SLC, CVG....
If I go to MSP it will be on the ER or the 88.
But you know I will fly the French plastic jet, just to say I did it. I will go where I can hold a commutable line. If I cannot stay in ATL, I will at least go somewhere that I enjoy.

MEM trips ARE mostly 4 or 5 days, some 1,2,3 and you almost never see MEM again till the end. The exception is usually Cancun, Montego Bay, and a few Florida destinations that come back thru. I think they are afraid we'll get off if we come back home. We really hit cleanup in the batting order. We fly a good amount of West Coast, East Coast, but tend to get a lot of Northern Tier when it is January thru March. I bid for two legs a day max, no short overnights and days off. The NBA charters are plentiful and I like them, just flew one leg SAT-MIA today, had a nice brisket, beans, macaroni, and cookies on the way, now 31 hrs on Miami Beach. The big plus is the base, Wendy in Ops is a godsend, great chief pilot, friendly FA's and much less company exposure, actually none. I have always loved cities like Missoula, Bozeman, Kalispell, Calgary, Duluth in the summer, and once upon a time, Cayman. Anyone who derides the 320 hasn't flown it. It is a great jet, especially with the seats on the newer 320's and all 319's.

King,

I kid the 320 guys all the time. I'm sorry about talking about the 320. I'm sure it's a nice airplane to fly. I am probably just not smart enough to fly it. No, no really, it's me, not the airplane. :o

As far as seats go, you know you can't beat the DC-9. They are good for at least 2 sick calls a year for a bad back!! :eek:

New K Now


ACL,

Are you saying the 320's are coming out altogether out of DTW and MSP? I've heard 330's and -400's to go with the -88's and 737-800 in JFK. DC-9's and the -400 in ATL.

What's going to be in DTW? I heard the 767's were going there.

New K

That is for sure!

Why do you think it is only the 9 and the -200 they will park? I thought RA's statement about how the 9 is "Todays Treasure" was pretty interesting.

King,

You bus boy youze.........a jet that doesn't start down on it's own is just uncivilized! OH and the 757 cup holder takes both plastic and styro.

Just kidding of course, I wish we would get our busses back in Dallas. Two jumpseats and NEVER a weight limit no matter how hot it gets is a wonderful thang'. It looks like a great jet when I've sat up front.

Ferd <---------ex MEM bubba in my -9 days. Mem is still my favoriate base.

PS Tell Wendy her uncle fred sayz hey

Kingbird,

You're truly a "class act", and a great example for the rest of us. I would love to have a beer (or three) with you, and I'll buy em all!

ACL,

Who have you heard who is going to fill the 757 south flying out of NRT? I assume a 767 from the west coast to NRT and then pick up the south flying for a few days/week then 767 home. Any idea what base yet? Gotta get Denny to the islands before the mad cow gets too bad.........

Ferd

Wasatch, Thanks for the kind words, and I'd love to bend a few back with you and all my new Delta brothers and sisters. A few here have dissed' my attitude,(positive) and thats fine with me. I have a choice each day, and I've never gotten anything by choosing to be po'd. I didn't do too well in the computers's juggling of our list, the worst was 1700 numbers, I was at 1592 hired after me going ahead. Oh well, it happened. There has been so much happening here since we first heard the names Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, I'd be tango uniform if I chose to be po'd. I used to fly with an old Southern Airways Captain when we bid the whole month together. I'd be grumbling about everything, living in a 36 inch circle around myself. He'd say, Hey man, I can't wait to get to Indy! Why Rod?, "Man, they got the best corn in the whole system there", and he'd get a big bag of popcorn and put it on the pedestal, and he was right. We'd eat corn and live the dream! Rod died of a brain tumor at age 57, and I gave his eulogy. It ended like this. "Captain Rod, your flight today is a pattern position to your home of destination. Your logbook is clean, no write ups. Your tail number is 7777. Ship load is a crew of two, no pax. Total enroute time will be short, but your layover will last an eternity. Your copilot will be in the seat with you for the first time, but has been with you before on every flight. Wave Off will be on your left, and you have a lot of grateful people to see you off. (Hand Salute), Good Luck, Captain Rod, have a great flight home!"
Ever since that day, I've known I have a choice. And if you ever taste the corn in Indy, you'll begin to understand.

Out of all the posts I've ever seen on here, I've never seen one that puts things in perspective more than that.

Thanks for sharing that, King.

Well with he way that DAL does its flying it will be a net loss of pilots needed. See it will more than likely be flown by a SEA and or LAX MSP 7Er pilot base. What that means is that you will be flying an active leg to NRT not dead heading. What this does is in essence take the two days and 28 hrs of DH pay off of each trip. I think you guys DH two to three crews a day. Now those DH will be flying legs. Trips will probably be seven to nine days and it will all be flying. Thus', we fly more, DH less and the company needs less pilots. When you add that up over a week that is at least 14 crews. Lots of bodies in my opinion!

Yep the 7Er is to go North to MSP, SEA, and DTW. The 88 can hit both coasts out of MSP, and I think DTW. I know MEH uses them out of MKE so an extra 200 miles should be doable. That means that the 9's are coming to ATL, 320's will more than likely go to SLC and CVG(maybe) The 744 are going to NYC, and ATL. The 330's to ATL, and NYC (cargo) the 777's well probably have a base in ATL, NYC, MSP and maybe LAX eventually.(Just a guess) I am sure that there will be some 320's left in the North but probably a smaller base. The need them for deep Mexico and what not. The 757 can do it, but they have other plans for those.
Now it remains to be seen how much of this is going to shift and how quickly. This is the plan. As we know plans change.
If you noticed there is no mention of the 73N in there. I personally think that we will see what happens with AS before making those plans. They are a 757 replacement on thin routes. So there is a place for them in each base.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. No matter where this goes, we have a choice to enjoy it, or whine about it. I have done both. I also know that taking the bad in stride and being grateful for the good, makes life's bumps a little less jarring.
Lets have fun, enjoy the job, and realize that IMHO in five to ten years everyone left here at the New Delta will probably be sitting at least one or more seats better off then they would have been with the stand along plan. (I know some NWA guys will argue with that, but there is going to be tremendous growth that you can not see if all you do is look at the SLI and think about what ifs. )

Ferd,

Unfortunately it looks like the mad cow is kickin' in and I've only got the rest of this season left!:( AAAAAHHHHHHH........Shirley.........Schmidt....... ..

Candace is still a knockout!!!:D

Denny

Ok, I've thought about it for awhile and I have no idea what AS is. Please help. I'm sure I will have an "ooooaaaaah" moment when I read your response. :D

:rolleyes: It shorthand for "Another SLI" :rolleyes:

Hey it also gives us more ways to get to Hawaii from Seattle. I heard the Alaska crews treat us well...

King,
You don't wanna touch the -800 flying. It's HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE I tell ya. 6-8 legs a day, minimum crew rest at the overnights, lousy copilots (just fly with me!!). The cockpit is too small, the seats are too hard, the noise is too loud. NOBODY should EVER bid this aircraft......... Seriously, thanks for the great posts, you seem like a class act, here's a DAL guy that is lookin forward to tippin a few back with ya.

AS is the code for Alaska Airlines.

Hey King sorry about the cooladie comment earlier. Rod used to be a good friend of mine. Great guy. Good luck to ya.