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Old 12-14-2008, 10:28 AM   #11  
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Originally Posted by Xray678 View Post
kinda blows away the argument that there was a huge difference between the number of retirements. 274 comes pretty close to making up the difference......and you get that seniority right now.
Not sure what the point of this thread is, but here are my points. 1015 NWA represents 19.5% of the NWA list. For DAL to have the same effect on the list they would need 1405 guys to go in the same time. That would be the same percentage move up. 723 DAL guys in 10 years represents 10% of your list. Its funny how you want the numbers to work for you. Get real and talk apples to apples. You guys will always say that it was fair and the majority of the NWA guys will always say that it wasn't -bottom line. The real numbers that matter to me are flying more days a month because I am junior in category, making less pay because of not being able to bid higher paying category, working more holidays when I would have not been, not being able to retire early because of no insurance, and the list could go on but what is the point. As I said in another thread the DAL guys have no idea what the losses are on the NWA side because you are not living it. I'm sure that there are DAL guys loosing things as well that we do not know about because we are not living what they are experiencing or going through(although I think that their list is pretty small if they can come up with one -your contract remains). NWA guy stand alone in 10 years moves up 19.5%. DAL guy stand alone moves up 10%. NWA and DAL guy move up combined list 14%. So DAL guy gets a 4 % advantage vs a NWA guy who looses 5.5%. Sounds fair?? I guess anyone can make the numbers work for them. All this is just food for thought if you want something to complain, gripe, think, or talk about. All this stuff seems to focus on the negatives of this thing. It is time to focus on the positives, although I think that it is human nature to dewell on the negatives. Part of the difficulty is that NWA guys have no idea of the DAL culture, your contract, bidding schedules, possible new positions in the future, etc. It is a big unknown to us so it is hard to see those good things right now(hopefully there are some). Have fun.

keenster

Last edited by keenster; 12-14-2008 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:42 AM   #12  
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Where is the retirement calculator?
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:59 PM   #13  
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Where is the retirement calculator?
It is for NWA guys only

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Old 12-14-2008, 06:30 PM   #14  
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I was asking about the DALPA one. It's ok though, I got an answer.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:46 PM   #15  
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1015 NWA represents 19.5% of the NWA list. For DAL to have the same effect on the list they would need 1405 guys to go in the same time. That would be the same percentage move up. 723 DAL guys in 10 years represents 10% of your list.

Exactly! If someone is going to do a comparison of retirements then the retirements should be looked at as a percentage of the stand alone group. Based on NWAs smaller size the retirement percentage is much more significant than what is being alluded to on this thread.

It does not really matter anymore anyway but I don't like to see what we gave up belittled.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:36 AM   #16  
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Is there a NW seniority list with DOH on it that is out there? I am just curious as to where the NW guys near me on the combined list are at.

Thanks
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:11 AM   #17  
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Exactly! If someone is going to do a comparison of retirements then the retirements should be looked at as a percentage of the stand alone group. Based on NWAs smaller size the retirement percentage is much more significant than what is being alluded to on this thread.
I will admit that I never considered that even if the retirement numbers were the same, you would have moved more as you were a smaller group. And I have seen some NWA pilots who would have retired the 500 or less range and now will be in the 1500+ range. Of course at the combined airline 1500 will hold any widebody by the time fences come down.

I will submit to you though, that while you lost some advancement you still gained. It may take a little longer to fly a widebody of the 330/764 size, but you have gained the ability to fly the 7ER. Which means you may actually be flying a widebody internationally quicker. You also gained some nice bases to bid in LAX SLC and ATL. The NWA widebodies that I gained in the merger mean zero to me, since I will not go to MSP or DTW to fly them. And I suspect for every widebody that moves from there to ATL, there will be an equal number going the other way.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:44 AM   #18  
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FWIW
Here are my numbers, because its "all about me" right?
0: NW-8% DL-8%
5: NW-10% DL-9%
10: NW-27% DL-20%
20: NW-86% DL-80%
65: NW-95% DL-91%

The guy senior to me was hired 7 years after me.
I am 958 junior to the same DOH at DAL.
My pay raise will be 38% (credit for furlough time)
The equity share for me is 26.2K @ $7.85

I am concerned more about getting furloughed again more than anything else. Been there done that, if it happens again I will be in the newspaper under the bankruptsy. Anybody need a nice home in western WI?
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:59 AM   #19  
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FWIW
Here are my numbers, because its "all about me" right?
0: NW-8% DL-8%
5: NW-10% DL-9%
10: NW-27% DL-20%
20: NW-86% DL-80%
65: NW-95% DL-91%

The guy senior to me was hired 7 years after me.
I am 958 junior to the same DOH at DAL.
My pay raise will be 38% (credit for furlough time)
The equity share for me is 26.2K @ $7.85

I am concerned more about getting furloughed again more than anything else. Been there done that, if it happens again I will be in the newspaper under the bankruptsy. Anybody need a nice home in western WI?
Add to that that you are now senior enough to hold a wide body FO slot (even bigger pay raise). Couldn't do that before, could you?

The 7 years, judging by your initial percentage, is due to 9/11 and the furloughs and the lack of hiring by any body for 6 or 7 years. Effectively you are only 1 year off. You now have roughly 1000 (500 Delta guys) under you to eat your furloughs instead of 350. All in all not a bad position comparatively speaking.
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:01 AM   #20  
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Add to that that you are now senior enough to hold a wide body FO slot (even bigger pay raise). Couldn't do that before, could you?
I assume you mean the 767? It pays the same as 757, which he could/can hold at NWA according to his % (his profile even shows he is a 75FO). So where is the "even bigger" raise, besides the one any 757 guy received with JPWA regardless of seniority?
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