Nosmo King

Trying to verify a rumor I heard about DL breaks with augmented crews. At FNW, for 3-pilot legs we break it up into thirds and the Captain gets middle break so he can be in seat for TO and Landing. On 2CA/2FO legs its usually split in half with one CA and one FO in seat for Takeoff and the other CA/FO in seat for landing. On long legs you can get almost a full nights sleep on your break. Friend of mine told me that at DL the same CA/FO are in seat for takeoff and landing on a double crewed leg and that your breaks are never half/half. Is that the DL procedure?

Justdoinmyjob

My understanding is that it's up to the individual crews to figure out and whoever needs the landing. YMMV.

slinky

We typically give the landing to the ones who need them the most. I have captains who give both landing to the FO's because they are the ones who need it on that trip.

We tend to give the guy landing the middle break. Basically, every crew does how they want, but mostly the relief pilot gets the first break, guy landing, then pilot not flying.

Slinky

Nosmo King

What about fights over 12 hours?

staplegun

I'm on the 777.

All of our flights are over 12 hours.

Usually we schedule breaks like this:

If cruise time = 14 hours.

A crew do take-off and landing going, B crew do take-off and landing coming back.

Going over, B crew rests for 3 & 1/2 hours, A crew rests for 3 & 1/2 hours, B crew rests for 3 & 1/2 hours, A crew rests for 3 & 1/2 hours. Coming back it is reversed.

My bladder can't last for more than about 3 hours anyway...



Kevin

Nosmo King

Wow, in my opinion, that really sucks for a break schedule for flights over 12 hours. I'd rather do 50-50 breaks.

Pineapple Guy

Nosmo,

Don't get too worked up. As was mentioned previously, nothing in the break schedule is "procedure"; it's all technique. Whatever the 3 (or 4) guys work out amongst themselves is fine. I think the only part that might be procedure is that the Captain and F/O that take off will be the same ones that land, but I'm not even sure about that part.

It's still gonna be a while before we start mixing crews; I'm sure we can all find a happy medium.

PG

sailingfun

Breaks are determined by the A Captain. When the flight departs and how much over 12 it flies are looked at. Most of my flights with a double crew are just over 12 hours. We normally take only one breaks. If we do take two breaks normally we do a short and a long break. The crew flying however always does both landings and takeoffs. The Captain who signs for the aircraft is in operational charge of the flight and I believe has to be in the Captains seat for TO and Landing. As mentioned normally the A crew flies over and the B crew back. On the really long flights like the 17:55 leg from Mumbai I am sure they do it differently. In the end however the A captain decides.
On the 8 to 12 hour flights its still up to the Captain. It used to be the Captain always took the middle break because it was quieter for rest. Over the years it has evolved and most but not all Captains have the pilot flying take the middle break. The relief pilot gets the first break and the pilot not flying the last break. On some flights in the 11 hour range crews will break the breaks up into a long and a short break. 1 hour break and a 2:30 break as a example. I don't like this but it is done.
One thing that does sound different at NWA from Delta. Since your have flights with 1 Captain and 3 FO's it sounds like FO's can occupy the Captains seat for TO and Landing. If you split the TO and Landing between crews. At Delta the FO's even though type rated can't occupy the left seat. In another weird thing the CA can never occupy the FO seat unless he has had dual seat training which is not normal unless you are a check airman.

CVG767A

I do a lot of JFK-TLV (23:35 round trip), and I prefer to do two shorter breaks, rather than one long one. I've tried several different ways of doing the breaks, and think that two different sized breaks work best for me. (I have yet to insist that we do it my way, though. I always go with the what the crew consensus is--as do most guys, I think).

First of all, it's torture to sit in the cockpit for that extended period of time, especially on the back side of the clock. You're tired, but don't want to drink coffee, because you're afraid of messing up your break.

To take a long break is great--if you actually get some sleep. I've had legs where I only managed to sleep for an hour or two of my 5:30 break; that sucks. Two breaks gives me another chance to get some sleep, if conditions weren't right for a good nap on the first break.

BTW, I've found that it's a good idea to keep the door to the bunk room open between shifts; this allows the room to cool off a little. I've seen a 5 degree temperature drop by doing this.

Justdoinmyjob

Yeah, those redeye transcons are a real nutbuster! Oh wait..........wrong tread.