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Old 05-05-2010, 12:05 PM   #101  
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Originally Posted by thor2j View Post
Just to clarify something in your little tirade, CAL is not coming to UAL. We are coming to United Continental Holdings. United is simply the shortened name.
This is a problem. CAL and UAL pilots should hope that we don't come to United. I'd much rather work at "CAL-the world's Biggest Airline", than "United-the World's Biggest Airline". If we are "coming to United", we are in deep doo-doo. You gotta know that.

I am perfectly willing and looking forward to working with the UAL guys. Hopefully, we get to arbitration as soon as possible, get the SLI done, and take our place as the world's dominant carrier. The pride and self-esteem that you bring to the party is gonna be a breath of fresh air to a lot of guys at CAL, but don't try to Jedi-mind trick an arbitrator into thinking that our career expectations are remotely close. Know-thyself or thyself might just end up getting bought by USAir, as was the case just 2 weeks ago.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:04 PM   #102  
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Attn CAL pilots:

Please cease all open discussions on this forum concerning contract (JCBA) and SLI expectations/predictions at this time.

Update your e-mail contact info on the ALPA website, and read the comm from the merger comm. later today when it arrives.

Call/write your rep if you need someone to expand on this for you.

Thank you.

Fly safe, fly the contract.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:20 PM   #103  
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And I believe UAL considers a 757 a widebody (which it isnt)...
Incorrect. We fly both as a common fleet, but nobody is counting the 757s in the widebody numbers.... UAL widebodies are 747, 777, and 767.

IMO we should let our respective merger committees do their work on our behalf and NOT make their jobs harder by starting or engaging in pointless ****ing contests. We should be focusing on the JCBA first and foremost since THAT will have a bigger impact on careers than the SLI (IMO of course). BOTH of our contracts have problems that must be corrected, and both have strengths that must be capitalized on. I understand that we ARE pilots, and must therefore engage in petty, nonproductive, and un-fulfilling arguments -- but let's try to rise above that expectation....

The bloated egomanical CEOs have given us a golden opportunity to wring their collective necks and fix our past contractual mistakes. Let's kick their @sses!
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:52 PM   #104  
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[QUOTE=Rocketiii;806919]I was about to type the same thing. The only point that is made in the tirade is that there is nothing we can do about it at this point as individuals regarding the integration. The direction of the companies are made by a few personalities that will come and go over time. We must protect ourselves as no one else will. I believe we should also stand united for our CBA. But the reason for my post was to illustrate that there will be hurt feelings as we are individually protective of our own rights. There is nothing at UAL that I want. Nothing from the uniform to an oil dripping, gas guzzling 747. And I assume no one at UAL wants to fly one of our 737s from IAH to OKC. So the widebody argument vis a vis career expectations isnt as clear as UAL has X% and CAL has X%, just as someone menioned in a fictitious mergere with Evergreen.

I dont want this, but Im just a pilot for hire. But I will be a team player. Just be realistic about the strengths, weakness, etc of our individual airlines and hopefully the arbitrator will see that. It is out of our hands. As a 12 year guy on a 737 that flies from Anchorage to Quito and everywhere in between, I dont feel like getting put next to a 12 year guy at any airline that has less than that. Date of hire, percentage or not. And I believe UAL considers a 757 a widebody (which it isnt), so I guess we could consider all of our 737-900s widebodies also since they hold nearly identical passenger loads. Its a slippery slope when going down the widebody is the end all be all of career expectations.[/QUOTE

Yeah, those "oil drippin gas guzzling" 744s are ancient!! An average of 15 years old!! Some were built in 1999. Not exactly rope starts

JCBA first! Like AXL says...lets kick some a$$
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:53 PM   #105  
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Originally Posted by Rocketiii View Post
I was about to type the same thing. The only point that is made in the tirade is that there is nothing we can do about it at this point as individuals regarding the integration. The direction of the companies are made by a few personalities that will come and go over time. We must protect ourselves as no one else will. I believe we should also stand united for our CBA. But the reason for my post was to illustrate that there will be hurt feelings as we are individually protective of our own rights. There is nothing at UAL that I want. Nothing from the uniform to an oil dripping, gas guzzling 747. And I assume no one at UAL wants to fly one of our 737s from IAH to OKC. So the widebody argument vis a vis career expectations isnt as clear as UAL has X% and CAL has X%, just as someone menioned in a fictitious mergere with Evergreen.

I dont want this, but Im just a pilot for hire. But I will be a team player. Just be realistic about the strengths, weakness, etc of our individual airlines and hopefully the arbitrator will see that. It is out of our hands. As a 12 year guy on a 737 that flies from Anchorage to Quito and everywhere in between, I dont feel like getting put next to a 12 year guy at any airline that has less than that. Date of hire, percentage or not. And I believe UAL considers a 757 a widebody (which it isnt), so I guess we could consider all of our 737-900s widebodies also since they hold nearly identical passenger loads. Its a slippery slope when going down the widebody is the end all be all of career expectations.
************************************************** *********
what kind of foolishness are you talking about?? Obviously you haven't Been near our 747-400's or you'd know (or coming from USAIR maybe you wouldn't) that the oil consumption is Less than the 737 because we have to fly much longer legs and we maintain our engines to ETOPS oil consumption limits. So you show that you know NOTHING!!
And to make ANOTHER point We 'LOVED' and flew the 737's while you guys were flying those "Hotdog Bun" MD80's. So You REALLY don't know anything!!
Maybe you should have STAYED at USAIR because you sound just like those LOSERS. Hooray for ME! and SCREW you?? Isn't that your motto??
Get this straight Einstien! Nobody did ANY of this Just to screw YOU!!
Nobody asked any of yours, or OUR OPINIONS!! And if it happens or if it doesn't!! YOUR opinion about the merits of it STILL won't mean JACK!
So if your "knickers" are in a twist?? Big Deal! Join the CLUB!! AT UAL the PAY is for Groupings of similarly "skilled" airplanes. 757/767 are considered interchangeable from the Pilot seat as BOTH fly ETOPS and BOTH have their improtance to the fleet. 747/777, A320/A319/737 were similarly grouped That's why with a similar number of airplanes we flew 36 Million more revenue passenger Kilometers than CAL did JAN-DEC 2009. Cal 125,155,550 RPK, UAL 161,665,392, RPK so the "something" WE bring to the table is pretty damn "considerable" and we did it with these SAME "Jurasic" airplanes, So you don't have anything to say about Jack! Obviously somebody smarter than YOU thought this was a good idea and I tend to agree with them!! And another thing! You ARE going to come to United's proceedures, OUR OCC, and OUR way of doing things... I already Know that, so we'll see you again in the spring when you start calling the "Big Willie" in Sweet home Chicago "Hometown". Bring a coat! It can get cold. Cuz I'm gonna tell you what! We're gonna show Delta, American and our "snotty" cousins over IN Frankfurt, Tokyo, Bangkok, and Singapore How it's REALLY Done! They're pretty trite in calling Us Americans a bunch of "Cowboys".. GET THIS ACT TOGETHER, AND WE'LL give those "chumps" a REASON to call us "Buckaroos".. And STOP with the Whining! JeeZ!! You act like somebody DIED and named YOU the boss talkin bout what YOU don't like!!
Give it a break will you, whatta ya gonna do Quit?? Hardly likely!!
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:51 PM   #106  
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Originally Posted by strfyr51 View Post
************************************************** *********
what kind of foolishness are you talking about?? Obviously you haven't Been near our 747-400's or you'd know (or coming from USAIR maybe you wouldn't) that the oil consumption is Less than the 737 because we have to fly much longer legs and we maintain our engines to ETOPS oil consumption limits. So you show that you know NOTHING!!
And to make ANOTHER point We 'LOVED' and flew the 737's while you guys were flying those "Hotdog Bun" MD80's. So You REALLY don't know anything!!
Maybe you should have STAYED at USAIR because you sound just like those LOSERS. Hooray for ME! and SCREW you?? Isn't that your motto??
Get this straight Einstien! Nobody did ANY of this Just to screw YOU!!
Nobody asked any of yours, or OUR OPINIONS!! And if it happens or if it doesn't!! YOUR opinion about the merits of it STILL won't mean JACK!
So if your "knickers" are in a twist?? Big Deal! Join the CLUB!! AT UAL the PAY is for Groupings of similarly "skilled" airplanes. 757/767 are considered interchangeable from the Pilot seat as BOTH fly ETOPS and BOTH have their improtance to the fleet. 747/777, A320/A319/737 were similarly grouped That's why with a similar number of airplanes we flew 36 Million more revenue passenger Kilometers than CAL did JAN-DEC 2009. Cal 125,155,550 RPK, UAL 161,665,392, RPK so the "something" WE bring to the table is pretty damn "considerable" and we did it with these SAME "Jurasic" airplanes, So you don't have anything to say about Jack! Obviously somebody smarter than YOU thought this was a good idea and I tend to agree with them!! And another thing! You ARE going to come to United's proceedures, OUR OCC, and OUR way of doing things... I already Know that, so we'll see you again in the spring when you start calling the "Big Willie" in Sweet home Chicago "Hometown". Bring a coat! It can get cold. Cuz I'm gonna tell you what! We're gonna show Delta, American and our "snotty" cousins over IN Frankfurt, Tokyo, Bangkok, and Singapore How it's REALLY Done! They're pretty trite in calling Us Americans a bunch of "Cowboys".. GET THIS ACT TOGETHER, AND WE'LL give those "chumps" a REASON to call us "Buckaroos".. And STOP with the Whining! JeeZ!! You act like somebody DIED and named YOU the boss talkin bout what YOU don't like!!
Give it a break will you, whatta ya gonna do Quit?? Hardly likely!!
Put your cocktail down and step slooooowwwwllly away from the computer. Sheesh, what an a$$. I have never worked for USAIR. What gives? The point of my post was in response to someone telling me, a CAL pilot, how great freaking UAL is and how we should be lucky to be getting the widebody percentage. Something about 'chomping at the bits'...... I had to respectfully deny that I give a da** about that ancient fleet, bad morale and sh*** management.

My point was that it is out of our hands and that for UAL to have one good quarter after posting billions of dollars in losses over the last decade and then act like our savior, well I call BS. After 12-13 years I have a great position, fly in the senior base and live an hour away. Id like to keep it that way.

And I no way intend to say everyone thinks like the poster I was quoting in my original post. I dont believe that at all. Like I said, about every UAL pilot I ran into over the last MANY years was constantly hounding about the merger. All I ever said was "I hope not". But I guess one good quarter and the last decade is forgotten.

So I didnt start the crap about who is better or percentage vs DOH. All I said was that an attitude like UAL guys may deserve higher percentage integration due to the higher number of widebodies means absolutely nothing IMHFO. This is not a who is better than whom post. It is a response to someone who I inferred had a geneological, predisposed attitude to think they are superior. And I will defend against that all day and all night. You can make this a war if you want. I choose not to. Im trying to ignore the comments from UAL in Stapleton back when they had the TORQUE campaign with the lapel pin with a Screw threw the meatball. That stuff is not productive and can be moved on. But a lot of CAL guys remember that and comments from UAL releases saying that they are the 'brain surgeons' of the majors. I think most people are willing to drop all of that quickly. But comments like we are 'chomping at the bit' to fly UAL equipment is a bit over the top and to change percentages to get closer to that equipment neglects to reflect that at just over 11 years here, we can fly captain positions all over the world or FO positions with 20 days off at 12 grand a month. I dont think that longevity matches what we would have if we were at UAL. Hell, Ill sing kumbaya all day too if thats what you want.

PS. And the statement about the 757s being widebodies was stated incorrectly. We fly the 757 and 756-2 and 400 commonly. But the 757 was considered a widebody during the DAL/NWA integration.

Last edited by Rocketiii; 05-05-2010 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:05 PM   #107  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strfyr51 View Post
************************************************** *********
what kind of foolishness are you talking about?? Obviously you haven't Been near our 747-400's or you'd know (or coming from USAIR maybe you wouldn't) that the oil consumption is Less than the 737 because we have to fly much longer legs and we maintain our engines to ETOPS oil consumption limits. So you show that you know NOTHING!!
And to make ANOTHER point We 'LOVED' and flew the 737's while you guys were flying those "Hotdog Bun" MD80's. So You REALLY don't know anything!!
Maybe you should have STAYED at USAIR because you sound just like those LOSERS. Hooray for ME! and SCREW you?? Isn't that your motto??
Get this straight Einstien! Nobody did ANY of this Just to screw YOU!!
Nobody asked any of yours, or OUR OPINIONS!! And if it happens or if it doesn't!! YOUR opinion about the merits of it STILL won't mean JACK!
So if your "knickers" are in a twist?? Big Deal! Join the CLUB!! AT UAL the PAY is for Groupings of similarly "skilled" airplanes. 757/767 are considered interchangeable from the Pilot seat as BOTH fly ETOPS and BOTH have their improtance to the fleet. 747/777, A320/A319/737 were similarly grouped That's why with a similar number of airplanes we flew 36 Million more revenue passenger Kilometers than CAL did JAN-DEC 2009. Cal 125,155,550 RPK, UAL 161,665,392, RPK so the "something" WE bring to the table is pretty damn "considerable" and we did it with these SAME "Jurasic" airplanes, So you don't have anything to say about Jack! Obviously somebody smarter than YOU thought this was a good idea and I tend to agree with them!! And another thing! You ARE going to come to United's proceedures, OUR OCC, and OUR way of doing things... I already Know that, so we'll see you again in the spring when you start calling the "Big Willie" in Sweet home Chicago "Hometown". Bring a coat! It can get cold. Cuz I'm gonna tell you what! We're gonna show Delta, American and our "snotty" cousins over IN Frankfurt, Tokyo, Bangkok, and Singapore How it's REALLY Done! They're pretty trite in calling Us Americans a bunch of "Cowboys".. GET THIS ACT TOGETHER, AND WE'LL give those "chumps" a REASON to call us "Buckaroos".. And STOP with the Whining! JeeZ!! You act like somebody DIED and named YOU the boss talkin bout what YOU don't like!!
Give it a break will you, whatta ya gonna do Quit?? Hardly likely!!
Ok Bro!! You go show us how its done!!

AA
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:11 PM   #108  
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Originally Posted by AxlF16 View Post

The bloated egomanical CEOs have given us a golden opportunity to wring their collective necks and fix our past contractual mistakes. Let's kick their @sses!
Amen to that! Smisek now has 11500 or so ****ed off pilots instead of just 5000. Might I recommend the red FUPM bracelets for our UA-North bros. The FUPM Store
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:11 PM   #109  
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The best thing that both sides can do is to turn down the rhetoric and get a good contract. A seniority number only has value if you have a decent contract to back it up. (Example US Airways)

Just to ponder a statistic. In an airline with 5,000 pilots, 1% of your seniority list is 50 numbers. If you consider the differences in careers between a guy who is 50, 100, 0r 150 numbers (1,2, or 3%) junior or senior to you, is there really that much difference? I know, I know, some guy gets furloughed and some guy doesn't, but over a 30 year career there isn't that much difference.

Pilots can fight to the death over that last 1% or 2% in seniority while failing to realize that a 5% or 10% increase in compensation brings much more value to you. Every seniority list fight comes down to a very few factors, especially for airlines as similar as UAL and CAL. All this talk about wide bodies and career expectations are probably not very helpful. Arbitrators are very smart and they won't be fooled by these simple arguments.

Your best bet is to keep the seniority list on the back burner while you get a good contract. If you work together on this, the seniority list will take care of itself. Good luck. (DAL guy who is happy we did as well as we did and only hopes you guys do better, a rising tide lifts all boats)
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:38 PM   #110  
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Hey all don't let stirfry get under your skin. Looking at his position, and his posts, I don't believe he is a UAL pilot. If he is, he is in the minority. Most I have talked to believe in what Socal said earlier.

We should be talking about the best place to get a beer and complain to each other how we all got the shaft. Whilst celebrating our industry leading contract...

Cheers,
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