Originally Posted by chuckyt1 (Post 807078)

Hey all don't let stirfry get under your skin. Looking at his position, and his posts, I don't believe he is a UAL pilot. If he is, he is in the minority. Most I have talked to believe in what Socal said earlier.

We should be talking about the best place to get a beer and complain to each other how we all got the shaft. Whilst celebrating our industry leading contract...

Cheers,
chuckyt

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 807060)

Pilots can fight to the death over that last 1% or 2% in seniority while failing to realize that a 5% or 10% increase in compensation brings much more value to you. Every seniority list fight comes down to a very few factors, especially for airlines as similar as UAL and CAL. All this talk about wide bodies and career expectations are probably not very helpful. Arbitrators are very smart and they won't be fooled by these simple arguments.

Your best bet is to keep the seniority list on the back burner while you get a good contract. If you work together on this, the seniority list will take care of itself. Good luck. (DAL guy who is happy we did as well as we did and only hopes you guys do better, a rising tide lifts all boats)

Originally Posted by SoCalGuy (Post 806741)

SIDE NOTE & FOOD FOR THOUGHT.....

It's 'great' that everyone is sharing their ideas on how a 'healthy/fair' SLI should shake down....especially all those directly involved in the "NEW UAL". I would dare guess that for a majority of the pilots on the combine list, this would be their first "Legacy/Major" SLI integration/merger. For the other half of 'seasoned vets', I would also dare to say this is the biggest integration (size wise) to date that any of us have taken part. When looking at it in this mind-set, it's completely on par that tensions are 'high' on the final SLI outcome.....up-front, everyone has to respect that.

I can't speak for the UAL side of the house.....but on the CAL side, our MEC Chairman Jay Pierce sent out communications last night regarding the merger. In distribution, he was clear in saying that the first order of business is tackling a "Joint CBA". He went on to state the SLI is something that will come 'later'/secondary (after the JCBA is ratified/resolved), but make no mistake about it, the first order of business is the JCBA.

With this agenda being set forth, it is loud and clear that both groups need to "come together NOW" regardless of how/or what you feel about the impending SLI to come. I will be the first to admit, this has to be a conscious decision, and not easy to do so when SLI business is still in the 'wind'. One thing is for certain on this merger, if WE (The NEW UAL) do not put outside SLI differences aside (for a short time), and concentrate 110% on the JCBA, our future as a joint pilot group will be grim at best.

Make no mistake, MGT knows that the SLI is something that many are 'pondering', and they will 'attempt' to use that to their advantage by 'distraction' in the upcoming negotiations. It is abundantly obviously that we are 'hell bent' in obtaining the CBA that we all deserve (rules/pay/retirement/ect...). As we embark on this course, we MUST to secure three things bar-none:
1) SOLID SCOPE that protects mainline positions at the NEW UAL.
2) Addressing/securing/eliminating foreign/JV flying that jeopardize future job security for all UAL pilots.....starting with first shot of Lingus IAD-MAD.
3) Most importantly/professionally say "FUPM" as a single group to our new MGT friends up in ORD.

In closing....if we don't not take care of this JCBA up-front as ONE SOLID VOICE, the SLI could be of little consequence in the future when Jeff/Glenn begin 'selling out' UAL Mainline Pilot Jobs as we have seen up to this point.

Just my $.02 cents......RESUME the thread & save some energy for the JCBA.

Originally Posted by AxlF16 (Post 807166)

Trust me (and I've met more UAL guys than you have ;)), none of us were looking forward to merging with CAL in hopes of career advancement at your expense. You might have met some pilots doing their 'pilot thing' making conversation... If anything, the topic stayed in the forefront because of the seeming inevitability of further consolidation. The truth is we wanted to GET RID OF TILTON! Almost to the 100th%, everyone I know would choose to continue as a standalone carrier with a management team that entertained the idea of internal growth.


Two things.... You should revisit your idea that UA is a boat anchor. Second, a merger is NOT necessary...it is financially expedient for the ones who actually make the decisions.



I'm no Marvin Mainliner or management apologist, but it is clear that UA is excelling in revenue growth and other key industry metrics. Simply saying it was good quarter is ignoring the bigger picture.



The fact that our liquidation (or major asset sale) was the wet dream of so many of our industry brothers made me ill. If that same mentality gains a foothold amongst our pilot groups, we are in real trouble. We have a common foe and we should direct our energy, derision, disgust, and angst directly at them!



As I mentioned earlier, I have spoken to a great many more UAL pilots than you have, and I can unequivocally assure you that we didn't want (or need) you to fix anything. Please stop and consider the 'tone' of your posts before you hit 'submit reply'. My gut reaction to the statement quoted above is, lets just say, not good. Whatever picture your minds eye has built based on your interaction with UA pilots is not accurate. I'd encourage you to keep an open mind as we go forward.



I trust our merger committees to do a professional job and present the cases on the (non emotional) merits. I too wish the best of luck to us all!

FWIW, I think I'm similarly situated as you. I'm a 13yr 767FO, live 1 hour from domicile, very happy with the schedules I hold, and am but a stones throw from 320 CAP and 777 FO in IAD (enough so that I removed my permanent bids since I was afraid I might actually get them :p). IMO my potential career will depend much more on the JCBA than on the SLI.....

Originally Posted by Rocketiii (Post 806919)

. Its a slippery slope when going down the widebody is the end all be all of career expectations.

Originally Posted by Daytripper (Post 807248)

There may have been some bar stool talk about this, but as a whole, CAL pilots, (those who have the spine to wear their ALPA pin wings level), know that when any airline folds, we lose leverage. The SLI won't be settled by forum chat where opinions, and "what if's" fly. The DL/NW SLI will probably set precedent.....some may gain a little, some may slide a little, but by and large....we all gain with a vastly improved JCBA. Join me in telling the Smizek/Tilton combo, with their millions made from the merger, to take some origami classes and see how many "swans" you can make from the Delta+1 offer. ;)

Originally Posted by Rocketiii (Post 807258)

I appreciate the well reasoned and calm reply. May I just say two things? I never hoped for the liquidation of your airline. My comment was that it was something expected after a decade of billion dollar losses, increasing debt, aging fleet, etc. Im sorry you felt it was a wet dream for the pilots at other airlines. That may be the case but certainly not how I felt.

And the most important part: I did not write my initial post to discuss how much better CAL is. I was defending against a previous post by a UAL pilot that suggested their career expectations were better. I may have inferred something in his tone that wasnt accurate. So I too will let the committees do their work and accept their careful and reasoned list. No choice. I look forward to working with all of you and Im sorry if my post had any hint of arrogance. That was not the intent whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Rocketiii (Post 807258)

So I too will let the committees do their work and accept their careful and reasoned list. No choice.