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Old 07-03-2006, 07:47 AM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
ALPA National will not take sides in a Merger between 2 ALPA represented Pilot groups that are merging....It would be a Conflict of Interest.....Just look at USAir (AAA) and former AmericaWest. It is and will be between the 2 merging MECs and the Arbitrator.

Almost all ALPA to ALPA mergers go to a nuetral Arbitrators.......Both sides present their cases to the Arbitrator and make their arguments and present their merger formulas. The Nuetral Arbitrator makes a binding decision on how the merger integration goes...............it becomes LAW.

If a NON-ALPA carrier merges with a ALPA represented carrier, then ALPA National will provide all the Legal assistance needed.

TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why. I do not know myself as I was not involved. I was told it was due to the fact that with TWA in Bankruptcy, the TWA Pilots had to make a choice. Take their chances with the company's survival on it's own..........or take a agree to void their contracts SCOPE/Successorship clause and take their chances with APA doing a fair integration.
Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no dog in that fight, but Almost all of the Former TWA pilots are furloughed or close to it.
That situation is what I was referring to. TWA was a founding member carrier of ALPA, yet ALPA's President and BOD decided to completely abandon their pilot group of 2400 and instead attempt to get APA (AA) to merge with ALPA and bring in 11,000 more dues-paying members.

This was my point: Don't count on ALPA to help. If it's in their best interest to do otherwise, they will not be there, even if a non-ALPA carrier merges with a large ALPA carrier.

Not only would Duane Woerth sell his own Mother to cut a deal, he'd send her COD.

And yes, out of 2400 TWA pilots, only 495 are left at AA.

www.twapaf.com
www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:03 PM   #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r


If a NON-ALPA carrier merges with a ALPA represented carrier, then ALPA National will provide all the Legal assistance needed.

TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why. I do not know myself as I was not involved. I was told it was due to the fact that with TWA in Bankruptcy, the TWA Pilots had to make a choice. Take their chances with the company's survival on it's own..........or take a agree to void their contracts SCOPE/Successorship clause and take their chances with APA doing a fair integration.
Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no dog in that fight, but Almost all of the Former TWA pilots are furloughed or close to it.
Well, that's somewhat of a stretch. ALPA National barely provided ANY legal assistance to the TWA pilots. If anything, ALPA did what they could to HINDER the TWA pilots so that they could appease the APA--a group that they had been courting quite seriously.

The TWA pilots had the proverbial "gun to the head" as AMR asked, YES, ASKED, TWA to file bankrtupcy. (source: AMR 10K report, April, 2001

The accusations can be found at http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com.

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Old 07-06-2006, 02:37 PM   #13  
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Well, that's somewhat of a stretch. ALPA National barely provided ANY legal assistance to the TWA pilots. If anything, ALPA did what they could to HINDER the TWA pilots so that they could appease the APA--a group that they had been courting quite seriously.
The
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Re Re-read my post...........I said it ALPA national will normally provide legal assistance between an NON ALPA carrier and an ALPA one........... but with the TWA-AAL it did not because of the following.............

I was told that ALPA did not have a legal leg to Stand on during the merger.
Because the TWA MEC agreed to Vois the Merger/ Successorship clause in the TWA Pilot contract as part of the Merger deal. I was told that voiding that section was a AAL demand before the Merger deal would proceed..........

This is why the TWA pilots were unfortunately stapled to the bottom.
I do not know this to be fact. This is what was told to me by an ALPA attorney.

If you were former TWA.......Please confirm this one way or another? Is that True or Not?
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Old 07-06-2006, 04:18 PM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
Re Re-read my post...........I said it ALPA national will normally provide legal assistance between an NON ALPA carrier and an ALPA one........... but with the TWA-AAL it did not because of the following.............

I was told that ALPA did not have a legal leg to Stand on during the merger.
Because the TWA MEC agreed to Vois the Merger/ Successorship clause in the TWA Pilot contract as part of the Merger deal. I was told that voiding that section was a AAL demand before the Merger deal would proceed..........

This is why the TWA pilots were unfortunately stapled to the bottom.
I do not know this to be fact. This is what was told to me by an ALPA attorney.

If you were former TWA.......Please confirm this one way or another? Is that True or Not?

Yes, I am former TWA.

ALPA National's lawyers advised the TWA MEC to void the Merger/Successorship! You should have seen the fist pounding by one of these lawyers at one of the late MEC meetings where the "shiite sandwich" was crammed down! ALPA insisted the TWA pilots sign it. We didn't. Only later was it discovered about other activities that ALPA (and it's law firm) were involved in.

This was misinformation and railroading by ALPA at it's best.

So tell me why a FRAGMENT of USAir was going to be (or at least ALPA Nat'l was negotiating for) integrated date of hire with American when the original four-way (AMR/TWA, UAL/AAA) merger was announced?

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Old 05-04-2010, 05:11 AM   #15  
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Default unable to pull up merged list

your link does not work i'm doing something wrong?. also he date of hire at pesent time Cal has a more senior work force due to all the hiring they did in 83,84,85,86,87,88 Ual did very little hiring during that time frame started to pick up hiring late 85 , heavy in 86.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:38 AM   #16  
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I can't wait to see this abortion of a "list" by ALPO!!!!! Also, how are you UAL guys and gals gonna like flying with all the CO scabs???? This is just too funny!!! have fun at Continited, or is it Unitenental. OK. Fire away!!!!!
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:51 AM   #17  
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I agree, link does not work. Where is the list?
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:20 AM   #18  
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Holy thread resurrection! Don't even bother. DOH will not even be considered.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:21 AM   #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle 83 View Post
I can't wait to see this abortion of a "list" by ALPO!!!!! Also, how are you UAL guys and gals gonna like flying with all the CO scabs???? This is just too funny!!! have fun at Continited, or is it Unitenental. OK. Fire away!!!!!
Nope. No firing away here. I feel sorry for you guys at USAir. You have created such a mess that it appears there is no way out for you. To our benefit at UAL/CAL, we have witnessed your current scorched earth policy. UAL witnessed your DOH demands during our proposed 2000 merger.

Our SLI won't be easy, but it will be done. Then we are going to work together and get the contract we deserve.

Regarding the SCABS, is that all you can come up with to stir the pot?
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:36 AM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle 83 View Post
I can't wait to see this abortion of a "list" by ALPO!!!!! Also, how are you UAL guys and gals gonna like flying with all the CO scabs???? This is just too funny!!! have fun at Continited, or is it Unitenental. OK. Fire away!!!!!

You guys are more self-absorbed than I thought. Wow. You are right- we will follow your plan. That worked out great.
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