My humble opinion on a merged UAL/CAL list
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Yup, medieval. You have two CEO's who don't give one **** about its employees groups. Our Union has not been involved in this at all and it does not resemble the DAL/NWA merger Union wise. Thankfully our two MEC's have been meeting and will probably fire a shot at the SS Smisek/Tilton after the announcement.
I know it's never an easy task to merge to massive seniority lists, but I hope the two groups can get on board with one another quickly and painlessly. I think it will send a very strong message to the new company, and from want I understand the CAL group already has some leverage going into the next contract.
#22
AND.... from a pilot's prespective, CAL's 737-8/900's pay more than UAL's 757's. I personally would fly a dc-9 if it paid more than a 777.
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
Couldn't agree with you more - I would fly the DC-9 as well and never leave my home time zone IF it paid like a 777.
#24
Just my 2 cents
#25
...I know it's never an easy task to merge to massive seniority lists, but I hope the two groups can get on board with one another quickly and painlessly. I think it will send a very strong message to the new company, and from want I understand the CAL group already has some leverage going into the next contract.
If there is a merger, then the JV issue is moot and that leverage dissapears.
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
The leverage the CAL pilots have over their current contract negotiations is that they have to approve the JV with United as part of the Star Alliance anti-trust immunity deal. That has to be implemented by Jan 2011. So there is a financial and time component to it.
If there is a merger, then the JV issue is moot and that leverage dissapears.
If there is a merger, then the JV issue is moot and that leverage dissapears.
Whatever happens, wish you guys the best of luck. I think it's imperative that the two groups don't let management play devil's advocate pitting one side against the other.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
Take a look at CAL's page on the APC site, you'll see that the 757's are considered large narrow-bodies, middle in the 3-tier pay structure.
WIDE = 777, 767-400, 767-200
LN = 757-200, 757-300, 737-800/-900
SN = 737-700/-500/-300
Like the 777/747, 757/767, and 320/737 fleets at UA, CAL also has blended rates. They're not based on a specific airframe, but instead, they are based on a gauge classification. So, at CAL, a 757 is not a wide body.
WIDE = 777, 767-400, 767-200
LN = 757-200, 757-300, 737-800/-900
SN = 737-700/-500/-300
Like the 777/747, 757/767, and 320/737 fleets at UA, CAL also has blended rates. They're not based on a specific airframe, but instead, they are based on a gauge classification. So, at CAL, a 757 is not a wide body.
CAL's Wide LN and SN will more than likely go away
the 757/767 pilots are supposed to be used interchangeably though i've never seen any reference where that actally happens. with the 737's some of which are ETOPS will present a new wrinkle in the platform for pay purposes I would think and it MIght actually get UAL off it's duff to actually convert some A319's to ETOPS for the "Business First" type deal that LH is running where an A319 is converted to all business class to take advantage of it's 3700NM range. I've heard it's a big hit. Especially now that CAL's 700's can be deployed in their place Or be themselves converted to ETOPS. as they have as good a range, I also hope they deploy ALL of the -900ER's to off peak Hawaii and Europe to REALLY put American and ?Delta in Heartburn and get them Moving as well. My end result? The Euripeans won't be crying about "Owning" a USA airline as much as they'll be DEFENDING their OWN turf. With 3 mega carriers, their "clamoring" to fly cabotage in the USA? Might become FAR less attractive to them because they Won't want to return the Favor.
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
#29
Sure, as long as we're two separate carriers. So there will be some incentive to expedite the integration process but its no longer a JV when its all one carrier. And there's no longer a take it or leave it anti-trust immunity deadline to implement the alliance.
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 35
Hey folks. I’m a UAL furloughed guy who spent the better part of a decade in the 90s dedicated to become a United pilot due to the domiciles, cooperative work environment (during ESOP) and international widebody flying opportunities. I’ve spent the last 10 years regretting that effort as UAL has downsized in the attempt to be a good merger partner.
The end of the rainbow has been reached. I consider this an exceptionally smooth move by the management teams of both airlines. All the employees at both companies have an unprecedented opportunity to make this new company the unquestionable gold standard of the industry if we mutually focus on teamwork and excellence.
Everybody will have individual opinions as to how the seniority lists should be merged, including me. I’d just like to politely ask everybody to be as unemotional as possible, as professional as possible and as cooperative as possible. Perhaps even selfless. Everybody will lose some goodies and gain some goodies. Management will make some good calls and some bad calls, but the unionized employees of this new company will be the folks that mostly determine its huge success or bitter fall from #1…please keep this in mind as you determine my fate. I want to work for an energized kick &$$ company, else stay out of the industry.
The end of the rainbow has been reached. I consider this an exceptionally smooth move by the management teams of both airlines. All the employees at both companies have an unprecedented opportunity to make this new company the unquestionable gold standard of the industry if we mutually focus on teamwork and excellence.
Everybody will have individual opinions as to how the seniority lists should be merged, including me. I’d just like to politely ask everybody to be as unemotional as possible, as professional as possible and as cooperative as possible. Perhaps even selfless. Everybody will lose some goodies and gain some goodies. Management will make some good calls and some bad calls, but the unionized employees of this new company will be the folks that mostly determine its huge success or bitter fall from #1…please keep this in mind as you determine my fate. I want to work for an energized kick &$$ company, else stay out of the industry.
Last edited by FGHJKL; 05-03-2010 at 05:07 AM.
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