Flyguppy

While I fully agree that both sides are going to end up feeling screwed in some way, I also think that the opportunities will be greater for BOTH sides if this deal goes thru.

For UAL pilots....the chance to have a management team that wants to run an airline....(What a novel forkin idea!!!). More narrowbodies which will allow advancements for those that want the left seat. (Not saying right away of course....fences and all. Just saying the merged entity will hopefully not concentrate of farming out the domestic like UAL has done).

For CAL pilots.....the chance for many more primo widebody seats. (Again....not counting fences and all) I read somewhere that UAL has about 4 times more widebodies than CAL, with more than double the amount on order.

The MEC's from both sides have been meeting for many months in anticipation of this. This will not be a LCC/AWA kind of deal. I have not talked to one UAL pilot that thinks DOH is fair. And I have yet to hear from a CAL pilot that thinks a Captain hired in 2002 should go in front of a 1994 hire at UAL. (Certainly not saying they should lose their seat.....absolutely not)

When it's all said and done, I think relative seniority will rule. If you're in the 61st percentile on your list now, I'm thinking you can anticipate being around the same place when it's all over. Not a windfall for either side. Sure, being at the bottom of the UAL list will suck, just like it has for the last 10 years. But, I think this deal will get things moving in the right direction for them.....finally.

Just my opinions......man.

Riddler

I hope you're right. More importantly, I hope that 12,000 UNITED ALPA pilots will insist on the best from each group:
- CAL's scope
- UAL's work rules
- CAL's proposed pay rates (or better)
- Anything but UAL's management team
- Anything but CAL's draconian work rules and PBS scheduling

Also, from what I gather, UAL tends to take better care of its non-revs and jumpseaters.

acl65pilot

Great points. DO NOT GIVE ON SCOPE OR PAY! GET WORK RULES.

You guys have an opportunity in that both PWA's are amendable. Go for it.

Remember that the SLI sucks for most, and it is what it is. We just went through it, and to make a unified group, once this PWA, SLI stuff is done you MUST work as a team. Everything else is divisive, and will harm you going forward.

Here is two more great airlines becoming one. Consolidation, imo will bring the industry to four main players that have more pricing control, which will in turn allow better margins and a chance at true career restoration.

757Driver

It'll be way better than that IMO or I'll vote NO.

Sink r8

Quick question...

Is there solid evidence you guys (pilots) are being involved on the front end of this thing? I understand your MEC's are working together on the SLI, but I'm not hearing any chatter about purchasing labor's cooperation, or a new PWA/Contract. This went on for weeks, in our (DAL) merger. I'm a little surprised we're hearing nothing in this case.

Or are they going "medieval" on you guys, merging first, and solving the labor integration later?

Airhoss

Glenn has got no reason not to do it that way he's taking his money and running. He couldn't give a flying fart as whether this thing does well in the future or not.

OH WAIT that's the same attitude he has now!@!

With that in mind Jeffery better take note and pay attention if he intends to have a viable airline to work with.

Just for the record I was hired at UAL in 1997 here's brief picture of my history there.

1997 to 2000, 300 F/O, 2000 to 2001 777 F/O, 2001 to 2003 777 Pilot Instructor, 2003 surplussed to the 300 as an F/O, later in 2003 recalled to the 777 as an instructor in early 2004 surplussed to the 320 as an F/O, 2006 recalled to 777 as an instructor, 2008 upgraded to captain on the 320, 2010 surplussed to 757/767 as an F/O.

In summary I've been a narrow body F/O, a line holding wide body international F/O, an instructor and check airman on the 777, a narrow body captain and now back to a "wide body" F/O barely holding on as a Jr reserve guy.

I wonder where I'll be when the music stops this time?

Sink r8

There isn't one CEO that involves the employees because he cares about their hapiness.

I think with us, it was a contractual problem: ours didn't allow the company to merge without making some onerous changes. I don't know the specific clauses that were holding this up, but the bottom line is that this wasn't a "feel good" issue.

I assume your contracts also have some restrictions, but I couldn't tell you whether there is a contractual difference between our situation and yours. But our involvment was more obvious, from weeks and months before the deal was sealed.

My hope is that your (hypothetical) merger raises the bar on employee involvment. Specifically, I hope this puts your contract negotations right there in the forefront, and that your merger comes with a new contract.

757Driver

Yup, medieval. You have two CEO's who don't give one **** about its employees groups. Our Union has not been involved in this at all and it does not resemble the DAL/NWA merger Union wise. Thankfully our two MEC's have been meeting and will probably fire a shot at the SS Smisek/Tilton after the announcement.

Airhoss

I wasn't referring to employee happiness but simply a viable airline business model can't run effectivly without willing employees.

Sink r8

That doesn't sound good. I hate to imagine you'll be in the business of taking shots at the SS Smilton as it sails over the horizon. Hopefully, there is something tangible that they need relief from, something that can hold up the whole deal, which will need to be purchased.

Good luck.