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US Airways Appeal

Old 06-20-2010, 04:37 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by all4114all View Post
Death and taxes. ALPA, nice try using an 85 year old arbitrator fired by Major League Baseball, along with United and Continental pilots that you considered pilot "neutrals".
You mean the ONE the EAST picked? Wow - the lies and distortions will never stop from you all411. GMAFB
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:09 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by all4114all View Post
Death and taxes. ALPA, nice try using an 85 year old arbitrator fired by Major League Baseball, along with United and Continental pilots that you considered pilot "neutrals".

Then your committee to investigate this was the Rice Committee. As in VP of ALPA United pilot Paul Rice. You know the "neutral" pilot from United overseeing a dispute with USAirways, the airline at the time they were in serious merger discussions with.

Nice try. ALPA was FIRED as a Union. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals looked into a DFR suit against the new USAirways pilots union regarding this and their findings were,

CASE DISMISSED!

Wow, What a distortion. The USAIR east pilots pushed the negotations into binding arbitration. Then they got the arbitrator that they wanted! Do you have any idea of the process to pick a abitrator? From you post the answer has to be no. Nic was USAIR easts first choice! I don't agree with the final list produced by binding arbitration is just that binding.
There is also some confusion on this lawsuit. The Nic list is still the seniority list at USAIR. Nothing in this decision overturned that. When they get a joint contract if ever it will be the list or there will be another DFR lawsuit and this time it will be ripe to borrow the term from the decision.
In reality the mess at USAIR will probably never be undone and their contract will continue to be a drag on the rest of the industry. The East pilots will never recoup the money or quality of life they lost by continuing to work under the going out of business contract. The pilot group as a whole will never be able to negotiate anything they are so divided. Parker can continue to ignore USAPA as he has since its formation.
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:12 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by cactusmike View Post
Better yet, go back in time 5 years ago and let the corpse of US Airways rot away in liqidation.

Actually, it would be great if the West was indeed split off. We could go back to being profitable and growing again. Oh, by the way, all those shiny new jets that you have taken delivery of in the last few years? They were all America West orders. US Airways was shedding jets, not ordering them. AWA had firm orders for over 50 Airbus jets, including the A350, long before the merger. US Airways could not have made payroll in June of 2005 without the infusion of cash from AWA Holdings. But, as usual, I am wasting my time speaking to the deaf. So long, all.
The A350 was not offered for sale until 2 years ago. I don't think you had any on order. Perhaps you meant A330?
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:05 AM
  #234  
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And the Delta ALPA shills check their computers before catching the van to the airport.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:26 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy View Post
Because this cancer potentially spreads and infects us all. If the East gets their way, and ends up throwing out a binding arbitration that they had previously agreed to, the long established and, heretofore accepted rules, for seniority list integrations are out the window. This puts the entire industry into chaos, as the UAL/CAL deal could go the same route, if either group doesn't get their way.

And that impacts ME, hence it is in MY best interest to see the West win, and I have a constitutional right to spend my money the way I want to.
The industry has been dealing with "the cancer" since Lorenzo.

Some would say AW was part of the problem and still is from my perspective.

The east pilots represent a stand against those very fundamental issues that you call cancer. I remember the thinking of those who allowed Lorenzo to do his will. Do you?

I know folks on both sides and want the best for every single one of them.

Our profession went south when we stopped being a union years ago. No union talk here.

It's sad but the truth what many post reveal hear. I'm almost done but you better I.D. who your real enemy is.

I still think it's self-serving BS to enter another properties dispute. Something similar to crossing a line.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:29 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by all4114all View Post
And the Delta ALPA shills check their computers before catching the van to the airport.
Attack the messenger rather than debate the message. Standard technique when you have nothing to add to the conversation.

But thanks for playing.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:37 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
The industry has been dealing with "the cancer" since Lorenzo.
I agree. And its the SAME cancer, namely, using every possible legal means to get out of living up to previously agreed to decisions. And I have every confidence that the Easties will end up just as "successful" as Lorenzo ultimately was...

Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
Some would say AW was part of the problem and still is from my perspective.
"Some" would. But that "some" is almost exclusively made up of East pilots. The rest of us, who have no direct involvement, but merely watch this circus from the sidelines, are largely in support of the West pilots. That's the fact, and can be seen by how many non-affiliated pilots support the West as compared to the East.

Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
The east pilots represent a stand against those very fundamental issues that you call cancer. I remember the thinking of those who allowed Lorenzo to do his will. Do you?
Ugh, nice try. But I don't think so. You are correct in your comparison of the east pilot situation to the Lorenzo situation, except the east pilots are on the same "side" as Lorenzo, when you make your comparison. I do respect the West pilots who are standing up against this fundamental cancer, hence my donation.

Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
I know folks on both sides and want the best for every single one of them.

Our profession went south when we stopped being a union years ago. No union talk here.
We're in complete agreement here. But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Our union is a pathetic patchwork (aka "association") of independent airline unions, each battling their own battles. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
I still think it's self-serving BS to enter another properties dispute. Something similar to crossing a line.
Oh, so now I'm a scab? I get it. This is the airline equivalent of Godwin's Law. See:
Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:21 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy View Post
You mean the ONE the EAST picked? Wow - the lies and distortions will never stop from you all411. GMAFB
Here is a fun question for the East haters out there:

Hypothetically, let's say that USAirways did not vote ALPA off of the property. The next step of the process, in IAW ALPA merger policy, was to negotiate a CBA. Let's say that was done as well. Finally, both sides would have had to independently ratify the new CBA. The actual events lead me to believe that the East pilots would NEVER have agreed to any CBA containing the Nic award. Would all of you have had a problem with the East exercising their C&BL right not to ever vote in a joint CBA?

This ought to be interesting
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:28 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by GW258 View Post
I still think it's self-serving BS to enter another properties dispute. Something similar to crossing a line.
I think it would be more self-serving to support your attempt at tyranny of the majority. Bear in mind that the Delta pilot group is likely to be the larger entity in the event of any merger. Using USAPA's proposed methods, we could run roughshod over any other group we're likely to merge with. That doesn't make it right, though...
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:45 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by brakechatter View Post
Here is a fun question for the East haters out there:

Hypothetically, let's say that USAirways did not vote ALPA off of the property. The next step of the process, in IAW ALPA merger policy, was to negotiate a CBA. Let's say that was done as well. Finally, both sides would have had to independently ratify the new CBA. The actual events lead me to believe that the East pilots would NEVER have agreed to any CBA containing the Nic award. Would all of you have had a problem with the East exercising their C&BL right not to ever vote in a joint CBA?

This ought to be interesting
I wouldn't have a problem with that, whether it was done by ALPA or USAPA.

I don't see much of USAPA's energies going toward obtaining a contract to ratify, though. I see the bulk of it's efforts going toward evading an arbitration award.

I can't help but think that a decent contract would pass on both sides, even including the Nic award. A T/A would give every pilot a chance to do the math for himself. It's highly possible that most-- east and west-- would be ahead with a better contract, even if progression slowed down a bit.

The greater question is whether Parker is willing to offer a sufficiently good contract; he's already starting to talk like he can't afford to pay more.

I'm very much in favor of you guys getting a great contract. It'll make it that much easier for us to get a contract when the time comes.
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