sailingfun

Ratio's are done by position. When it came to the bottom of the USAIR list the pilots had no position.

NuGuy

A fDAL guy deriding the use of the "Tyranny of the Majority" made me just about cough up my spleen.

Speaking of SLI talk, during the DAL/NWA process, I heard a not-insignificant number of fDAL guys not only laud the USAir efforts, but talk of employing the process should the process not go their way.

A statisticaly significant number? Probably not, but they seemed quite interested.


Nu

cactiboss

You apparently have never read the award, there was a fence on the widebody's for 5 years and no active usair pilot was stuck to the bottom, and btw there are about 3 east pilots in between every single west pilot giving them 75% of all upgrades, read the award then you will be able to comment.

CVG767A

If you really heard that, you must have been running with a different group of fDAL guys than I was-- I never heard any of that.

It seems like during our SLI, we tried to negotiate. When we didn't come to an agreement, we turned it over to an arbitrator. When he made his decision, we lived with it. Period.

Where was the tyranny?

Jay5150

Jesus H. guy.....

Obviously, your either making that up or the number was so infinitely small that nary a peep was ever heard from this "not-insignificant" group of guys. Just like I could throw out there that the 747 and 330 guys wanted super seniority because their A/C were bigger.

(Although they paid less, than their comparable A/C)

LET IT GO.

Whenever you start a statement with... " I Heard"...

just delete it

sailingfun

I never even heard a peep from any DAL guys about not honoring the arbitration. I don't think there was that much concern on getting a really wild result anyway. It was pretty obvious where the list was being driven before the results where out just from the arbitrators questions and comments.

Jay5150

I think that out of that big post, you're above quote is what it boils down to. If DOH benefits you, that's what you'd like.

Interesting interchange:

I just rode the JS on United. CA, FO and 2 jumpseaters, myself and another UA FO. The working FO whipped out a "proposed" CA/UA list based on relative seiority,.. ie percentages.

Both the FO's on this "proposed list" lost about 9 years WRT DOH. The working FO thought this was "BS!" with a capital "B". He said that when he first hired on with UA, he would retire a fairly senior 747 CA, and that would now never happen....fair enough.

With that the jumpseating UA FO chimed in and said "true, but right now the guys bracketing me on the list WRT relative seniority on the CAL list can currently hold mid to low seniority narrow body FO, which is exactly what I can hold."

Mind you, this dude was a 9 year TWA FO before leaving for UA.
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Do you get a positive bump because you're old, or is "what you can hold, what you can hold?"
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Either way, I think if you bring no seat to the table (i.e. furloughed) you get,..well...screwed...

and , right or wrong that's just the way it is.

East furloughees should have been stapled, and UA furloughees will be as well.

Sucks, ... they don't deserve it, but you gotta blame your sh"*ty management for getting in the position that they are in, not the merging/acquiring one. If your "career expectations" were so great, you wouldn't be furloughed.

brakechatter

You are wrong. They did have a position. They were USAir pilots, being dispatched by USAir dispatchers, under the USAir certificate, under USAir work rules--all the way down to the bottom. Several of them never left the property.

Exactly right. ALPA merger policy could codify this or shun it. It should be codified one way or the other.

Maybe, maybe not. The USAir furloughees were in a VERY unique situation, IMO. Perhaps they should have taken a hit, but not the severity with which they did, IMO.

You are wrong, I know the award quite well. Are the fences still up? Why? How long did it take. Were the AWA pilots severely active in the legislation which brought down the fence? How long was that legislation proposed, and all of a sudden it is introduced as stand alone legislation, passed, and signed in 4 days. Riiight. Pilots who never left the property of USAIR with a decade and a half of service were stuck below a 4 month pilot. I have read the award, and I don't agree that AWA pilots got a windfall to the detriment of the East pilots.


Unfortunately, it is a hard truth. I never heard any south pilots talking about not respecting the award if it didn't "go our way". Your north complaining needs to be reserved for the Delta thread.

Guys, I'm out. Just some food for though. No more right or wrong than the next guy.

Jay5150

I'm assuming he means the very bottom. i.e., had a seniority number, but were furloughed. They may have technically been USAir pilots, but they were being dispatched by no one, working under no certificate and under no work rules. Other than the rules of their new employer, if they had one.

Jay5150

No, quite a few left the property. (if memory serves it was more than 1,000...I could be wrong) That's the bulk of whom we're talking about.