If I Had A Do-over
05-21-2018, 11:05 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by Brody
For those considering Mesa -
FWIW, I've been here for awhile.
Hiring: Other than the ATP requirement, you shouldn't have a problem.
Training: I have personally never had an issue with the training department. Never had an instructor or examiner whom I felt was negligent/unprofessional/unprepared. Regardless, we did have a recent meltdown - and it did have a huge impact on the individuals in the training pipeline. In fact, it's still going on. It seems like the worst of it's over, but I have friends in both initial, AQP, and upgrade who just told me they were told to show up at the sim on a certain date and time - only to find that the instructor was never notified (nor did they show up). So it was 'back to the hotel - and wait.' They all told me it happened in more than half of their sim sessions - and how frustrated the instructors are. This makes training a lot harder - and is totally avoidable. Any company is supposed to put pilots in a position to succeed in any training event. Instead, it's as if a 5th-grader is putting the schedules together.
After IOE: In my experience, reserve at Mesa is worst of the worst. It's not even close. The schedules are hostile - you get yanked all over the country to 'base assist,' and if you're not flying, you're driving to the airport nearly every day to sit airport-standby reserve. I can count on one hand how many times I just sat at home on normal short call (2 hr) reserve. On top of that, they only give you three days to 'move' to your new domicile (assuming you can't hold the domicile you live in). My attempts to get more than 3 days to literally move to a domicile several states away were met with the usual, "it depends on the operational needs of the company." This translates to, "not a chance." If you subsequently try to bid a base that's closer to your home (if you still can't hold your home/domicile), you get less than a day to move. I spoke to the chief pilot about this, who told me, "I realize it's impossible - but there's really nothing we can do."
Hey, it's just Mesa's culture. Get used to it.
Once You Can Hold A Line: Yes, life gets better. Here's the problem - it's very difficult to tweak your schedule. SAP, while it works well at a handful of other regionals, is a waste of time at MESA. PBS, my experience, is the worst thing pilots have allowed their company's mgmt to sell them. It benefits those on top of the seniority list - and management. For anyone not in that category who has had good experiences with PBS, good on you. I hope it stays that way. As for me, it's given me fits for years, despite soliciting all the help I can find for bidding. Mesa has been paying 300% for all open time for a year (it just went 'down' to 200% a week or two ago), so it's almost impossible to find someone to pick up your trip for straight time. This has forced many pilots to just call in sick to get much-needed days off that they otherwise would have traded out of. Now, HR is harassing some of those using sick days. Yes - there are a few who have abused sick time (every company has this), but they are now harassing those who aren't the usual abusers.
Moving On To A Better Flying Job: For some reason, it's VERY difficult to move on to a legacy (or equivalent) from Mesa. A pie chart was posted by a Mesa union rep last summer during the contract vote, which clearly proved this. The overwhelming majority moved on to jobs at Spirit, Frontier, and Atlas. Nothing wrong with these airlines if that's what you wanted - but what's shocking is the lack of ANY of the other carriers hiring Mesa's pilots. I spoke to some of the Mesa instructors I know recently, and they all seem to be frustrated that - despite their credentials - they are having the same problem. The only calls they're getting are from those three airlines. There are exceptions here - I understand that. But that's the problem - they're exceptions, and not the norm. It's not a stretch to see the obvious collusion - the question is why? But that's a subject for another post.
Pay: Are you okay with the pilots in the Airbus or Boeing at the gate next to you making at least three times more money than you do? Flying a schedule with better working conditions? With FAR better (and more affordable) medical and dental plans? With enough disposable income to actually save for retirement? Doing the EXACT same job?
Most of us who chose the Part 121 side of the business - chose it as a path to a legacy (or equivalent).
I'm only speaking for myself here, but if I had it to do all over again - I would not have chosen Mesa. Yes, there are some really good people here (as it is with any other company) who are a blast to work with. If your goal is to stay at the regionals, and you live in base - then maybe Mesa will work for you. My post is not a vendetta - it's just an honest assessment. I've had a lot of good days here. My opinion is that we need more honest critiques of the companies we're applying for. If your goal is to move on to a (legacy) major, this is probably not the best choice. The CPP with United is - in my opinion - a sales gimmick to recruit more regional pilots. In my experience, these types of 'programs' usually are little more than recruiting tools disguised as opportunity.
Take this for what it's worth. It's only one person's opinion.
FWIW, I've been here for awhile.
Hiring: Other than the ATP requirement, you shouldn't have a problem.
Training: I have personally never had an issue with the training department. Never had an instructor or examiner whom I felt was negligent/unprofessional/unprepared. Regardless, we did have a recent meltdown - and it did have a huge impact on the individuals in the training pipeline. In fact, it's still going on. It seems like the worst of it's over, but I have friends in both initial, AQP, and upgrade who just told me they were told to show up at the sim on a certain date and time - only to find that the instructor was never notified (nor did they show up). So it was 'back to the hotel - and wait.' They all told me it happened in more than half of their sim sessions - and how frustrated the instructors are. This makes training a lot harder - and is totally avoidable. Any company is supposed to put pilots in a position to succeed in any training event. Instead, it's as if a 5th-grader is putting the schedules together.
After IOE: In my experience, reserve at Mesa is worst of the worst. It's not even close. The schedules are hostile - you get yanked all over the country to 'base assist,' and if you're not flying, you're driving to the airport nearly every day to sit airport-standby reserve. I can count on one hand how many times I just sat at home on normal short call (2 hr) reserve. On top of that, they only give you three days to 'move' to your new domicile (assuming you can't hold the domicile you live in). My attempts to get more than 3 days to literally move to a domicile several states away were met with the usual, "it depends on the operational needs of the company." This translates to, "not a chance." If you subsequently try to bid a base that's closer to your home (if you still can't hold your home/domicile), you get less than a day to move. I spoke to the chief pilot about this, who told me, "I realize it's impossible - but there's really nothing we can do."
Hey, it's just Mesa's culture. Get used to it.
Once You Can Hold A Line: Yes, life gets better. Here's the problem - it's very difficult to tweak your schedule. SAP, while it works well at a handful of other regionals, is a waste of time at MESA. PBS, my experience, is the worst thing pilots have allowed their company's mgmt to sell them. It benefits those on top of the seniority list - and management. For anyone not in that category who has had good experiences with PBS, good on you. I hope it stays that way. As for me, it's given me fits for years, despite soliciting all the help I can find for bidding. Mesa has been paying 300% for all open time for a year (it just went 'down' to 200% a week or two ago), so it's almost impossible to find someone to pick up your trip for straight time. This has forced many pilots to just call in sick to get much-needed days off that they otherwise would have traded out of. Now, HR is harassing some of those using sick days. Yes - there are a few who have abused sick time (every company has this), but they are now harassing those who aren't the usual abusers.
Moving On To A Better Flying Job: For some reason, it's VERY difficult to move on to a legacy (or equivalent) from Mesa. A pie chart was posted by a Mesa union rep last summer during the contract vote, which clearly proved this. The overwhelming majority moved on to jobs at Spirit, Frontier, and Atlas. Nothing wrong with these airlines if that's what you wanted - but what's shocking is the lack of ANY of the other carriers hiring Mesa's pilots. I spoke to some of the Mesa instructors I know recently, and they all seem to be frustrated that - despite their credentials - they are having the same problem. The only calls they're getting are from those three airlines. There are exceptions here - I understand that. But that's the problem - they're exceptions, and not the norm. It's not a stretch to see the obvious collusion - the question is why? But that's a subject for another post.
Pay: Are you okay with the pilots in the Airbus or Boeing at the gate next to you making at least three times more money than you do? Flying a schedule with better working conditions? With FAR better (and more affordable) medical and dental plans? With enough disposable income to actually save for retirement? Doing the EXACT same job?
Most of us who chose the Part 121 side of the business - chose it as a path to a legacy (or equivalent).
I'm only speaking for myself here, but if I had it to do all over again - I would not have chosen Mesa. Yes, there are some really good people here (as it is with any other company) who are a blast to work with. If your goal is to stay at the regionals, and you live in base - then maybe Mesa will work for you. My post is not a vendetta - it's just an honest assessment. I've had a lot of good days here. My opinion is that we need more honest critiques of the companies we're applying for. If your goal is to move on to a (legacy) major, this is probably not the best choice. The CPP with United is - in my opinion - a sales gimmick to recruit more regional pilots. In my experience, these types of 'programs' usually are little more than recruiting tools disguised as opportunity.
Take this for what it's worth. It's only one person's opinion.
05-21-2018, 01:33 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by calmwinds
Whenever you post something on an open forum, you don’t dictate the responses...
I am happy with my decision of coming here. My friends at SkyWest have proven over and over that this was the best decision for me. I have also seen FO’s and CA’s go to Southwest, Delta, United, Alaska, Spirit, Kalitta, and Envoy over the past 12 months.
I love the Ejet and you will too (assuming you bypass upgrading on the CRJ). Just find a way to be happy.
I am happy with my decision of coming here. My friends at SkyWest have proven over and over that this was the best decision for me. I have also seen FO’s and CA’s go to Southwest, Delta, United, Alaska, Spirit, Kalitta, and Envoy over the past 12 months.
I love the Ejet and you will too (assuming you bypass upgrading on the CRJ). Just find a way to be happy.
I'm curious - why is this all about YOU?
Most of us here can (and will) admit that we're as full of crap as the next guy.
Why can't you?
05-21-2018, 02:09 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by P Owed Captain
Well, I am somebody who appreciates that you took the time and effort to give pilots a good idea of what they're in for if they come here. Like you said at the end of your very thorough post: "one person's opinion" . You never claimed to speak for all of us, but I find your points to be very valid!
05-21-2018, 02:12 PM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 848
Originally Posted by calmwinds
I appreciate the compliment from someone like you, given your reputation! :-)
05-21-2018, 02:14 PM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 848
Originally Posted by Brody
And we probably could have predicted your response.
I'm curious - why is this all about YOU?
Most of us here can (and will) admit that we're as full of crap as the next guy.
Why can't you?
I'm curious - why is this all about YOU?
Most of us here can (and will) admit that we're as full of crap as the next guy.
Why can't you?
05-21-2018, 02:55 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by PhantomHawk
Because CalmWinds knows all there is to know in the 121 world. Those 2 years (if that) in the right seat have taught him everything. Nothing more he could possibly learn......
05-21-2018, 03:16 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by Brody
And we probably could have predicted your response.
I'm curious - why is this all about YOU?
Most of us here can (and will) admit that we're as full of crap as the next guy.
Why can't you?
I'm curious - why is this all about YOU?
Most of us here can (and will) admit that we're as full of crap as the next guy.
Why can't you?
I will also admit many of my Mesa friends who have been on the CRJ left for other opportunities.
But some guys will also just always whine about their lot in life.
05-21-2018, 04:01 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by calmwinds
I am willing to defend Mesa, because I enjoy working here. It isn’t because I think Mesa is for everyone. I am careful to criticize and not recommend Mesa to pilots as well.
I will also admit many of my Mesa friends who have been on the CRJ left for other opportunities.
But some guys will also just always whine about their lot in life.
I will also admit many of my Mesa friends who have been on the CRJ left for other opportunities.
But some guys will also just always whine about their lot in life.
05-21-2018, 04:13 PM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 848
Originally Posted by calmwinds
Yep. It has been a fun ride. PhantomHawk has been waiting years for his upgrade. However, I have been involved in the 121 world for a lot longer than 2 years. Just not in the cockpit.
05-21-2018, 04:42 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by PhantomHawk
I’m going to attempt to disengage from this back-and-forth......but you clearly don’t understand that I’m not literal when I say I could learn a lot from you. I’m PATRONIZING you. I upgraded long before you ever worked for Mesa. Good day, sir.
