If I Had A Do-over
05-20-2018, 11:37 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
If I Had A Do-over
For those considering Mesa -
FWIW, I've been here for awhile.
Hiring: Other than the ATP requirement, you shouldn't have a problem.
Training: I have personally never had an issue with the training department. Never had an instructor or examiner whom I felt was negligent/unprofessional/unprepared. Regardless, we did have a recent meltdown - and it did have a huge impact on the individuals in the training pipeline. In fact, it's still going on. It seems like the worst of it's over, but I have friends in both initial, AQP, and upgrade who just told me they were told to show up at the sim on a certain date and time - only to find that the instructor was never notified (nor did they show up). So it was 'back to the hotel - and wait.' They all told me it happened in more than half of their sim sessions - and how frustrated the instructors are. This makes training a lot harder - and is totally avoidable. Any company is supposed to put pilots in a position to succeed in any training event. Instead, it's as if a 5th-grader is putting the schedules together.
After IOE: In my experience, reserve at Mesa is worst of the worst. It's not even close. The schedules are hostile - you get yanked all over the country to 'base assist,' and if you're not flying, you're driving to the airport nearly every day to sit airport-standby reserve. I can count on one hand how many times I just sat at home on normal short call (2 hr) reserve. On top of that, they only give you three days to 'move' to your new domicile (assuming you can't hold the domicile you live in). My attempts to get more than 3 days to literally move to a domicile several states away were met with the usual, "it depends on the operational needs of the company." This translates to, "not a chance." If you subsequently try to bid a base that's closer to your home (if you still can't hold your home/domicile), you get less than a day to move. I spoke to the chief pilot about this, who told me, "I realize it's impossible - but there's really nothing we can do."
Hey, it's just Mesa's culture. Get used to it.
Once You Can Hold A Line: Yes, life gets better. Here's the problem - it's very difficult to tweak your schedule. SAP, while it works well at a handful of other regionals, is a waste of time at MESA. PBS, my experience, is the worst thing pilots have allowed their company's mgmt to sell them. It benefits those on top of the seniority list - and management. For anyone not in that category who has had good experiences with PBS, good on you. I hope it stays that way. As for me, it's given me fits for years, despite soliciting all the help I can find for bidding. Mesa has been paying 300% for all open time for a year (it just went 'down' to 200% a week or two ago), so it's almost impossible to find someone to pick up your trip for straight time. This has forced many pilots to just call in sick to get much-needed days off that they otherwise would have traded out of. Now, HR is harassing some of those using sick days. Yes - there are a few who have abused sick time (every company has this), but they are now harassing those who aren't the usual abusers.
Moving On To A Better Flying Job: For some reason, it's VERY difficult to move on to a legacy (or equivalent) from Mesa. A pie chart was posted by a Mesa union rep last summer during the contract vote, which clearly proved this. The overwhelming majority moved on to jobs at Spirit, Frontier, and Atlas. Nothing wrong with these airlines if that's what you wanted - but what's shocking is the lack of ANY of the other carriers hiring Mesa's pilots. I spoke to some of the Mesa instructors I know recently, and they all seem to be frustrated that - despite their credentials - they are having the same problem. The only calls they're getting are from those three airlines. There are exceptions here - I understand that. But that's the problem - they're exceptions, and not the norm. It's not a stretch to see the obvious collusion - the question is why? But that's a subject for another post.
Pay: Are you okay with the pilots in the Airbus or Boeing at the gate next to you making at least three times more money than you do? Flying a schedule with better working conditions? With FAR better (and more affordable) medical and dental plans? With enough disposable income to actually save for retirement? Doing the EXACT same job?
Most of us who chose the Part 121 side of the business - chose it as a path to a legacy (or equivalent).
I'm only speaking for myself here, but if I had it to do all over again - I would not have chosen Mesa. Yes, there are some really good people here (as it is with any other company) who are a blast to work with. If your goal is to stay at the regionals, and you live in base - then maybe Mesa will work for you. My post is not a vendetta - it's just an honest assessment. I've had a lot of good days here. My opinion is that we need more honest critiques of the companies we're applying for. If your goal is to move on to a (legacy) major, this is probably not the best choice. The CPP with United is - in my opinion - a sales gimmick to recruit more regional pilots. In my experience, these types of 'programs' usually are little more than recruiting tools disguised as opportunity.
Take this for what it's worth. It's only one person's opinion.
FWIW, I've been here for awhile.
Hiring: Other than the ATP requirement, you shouldn't have a problem.
Training: I have personally never had an issue with the training department. Never had an instructor or examiner whom I felt was negligent/unprofessional/unprepared. Regardless, we did have a recent meltdown - and it did have a huge impact on the individuals in the training pipeline. In fact, it's still going on. It seems like the worst of it's over, but I have friends in both initial, AQP, and upgrade who just told me they were told to show up at the sim on a certain date and time - only to find that the instructor was never notified (nor did they show up). So it was 'back to the hotel - and wait.' They all told me it happened in more than half of their sim sessions - and how frustrated the instructors are. This makes training a lot harder - and is totally avoidable. Any company is supposed to put pilots in a position to succeed in any training event. Instead, it's as if a 5th-grader is putting the schedules together.
After IOE: In my experience, reserve at Mesa is worst of the worst. It's not even close. The schedules are hostile - you get yanked all over the country to 'base assist,' and if you're not flying, you're driving to the airport nearly every day to sit airport-standby reserve. I can count on one hand how many times I just sat at home on normal short call (2 hr) reserve. On top of that, they only give you three days to 'move' to your new domicile (assuming you can't hold the domicile you live in). My attempts to get more than 3 days to literally move to a domicile several states away were met with the usual, "it depends on the operational needs of the company." This translates to, "not a chance." If you subsequently try to bid a base that's closer to your home (if you still can't hold your home/domicile), you get less than a day to move. I spoke to the chief pilot about this, who told me, "I realize it's impossible - but there's really nothing we can do."
Hey, it's just Mesa's culture. Get used to it.
Once You Can Hold A Line: Yes, life gets better. Here's the problem - it's very difficult to tweak your schedule. SAP, while it works well at a handful of other regionals, is a waste of time at MESA. PBS, my experience, is the worst thing pilots have allowed their company's mgmt to sell them. It benefits those on top of the seniority list - and management. For anyone not in that category who has had good experiences with PBS, good on you. I hope it stays that way. As for me, it's given me fits for years, despite soliciting all the help I can find for bidding. Mesa has been paying 300% for all open time for a year (it just went 'down' to 200% a week or two ago), so it's almost impossible to find someone to pick up your trip for straight time. This has forced many pilots to just call in sick to get much-needed days off that they otherwise would have traded out of. Now, HR is harassing some of those using sick days. Yes - there are a few who have abused sick time (every company has this), but they are now harassing those who aren't the usual abusers.
Moving On To A Better Flying Job: For some reason, it's VERY difficult to move on to a legacy (or equivalent) from Mesa. A pie chart was posted by a Mesa union rep last summer during the contract vote, which clearly proved this. The overwhelming majority moved on to jobs at Spirit, Frontier, and Atlas. Nothing wrong with these airlines if that's what you wanted - but what's shocking is the lack of ANY of the other carriers hiring Mesa's pilots. I spoke to some of the Mesa instructors I know recently, and they all seem to be frustrated that - despite their credentials - they are having the same problem. The only calls they're getting are from those three airlines. There are exceptions here - I understand that. But that's the problem - they're exceptions, and not the norm. It's not a stretch to see the obvious collusion - the question is why? But that's a subject for another post.
Pay: Are you okay with the pilots in the Airbus or Boeing at the gate next to you making at least three times more money than you do? Flying a schedule with better working conditions? With FAR better (and more affordable) medical and dental plans? With enough disposable income to actually save for retirement? Doing the EXACT same job?
Most of us who chose the Part 121 side of the business - chose it as a path to a legacy (or equivalent).
I'm only speaking for myself here, but if I had it to do all over again - I would not have chosen Mesa. Yes, there are some really good people here (as it is with any other company) who are a blast to work with. If your goal is to stay at the regionals, and you live in base - then maybe Mesa will work for you. My post is not a vendetta - it's just an honest assessment. I've had a lot of good days here. My opinion is that we need more honest critiques of the companies we're applying for. If your goal is to move on to a (legacy) major, this is probably not the best choice. The CPP with United is - in my opinion - a sales gimmick to recruit more regional pilots. In my experience, these types of 'programs' usually are little more than recruiting tools disguised as opportunity.
Take this for what it's worth. It's only one person's opinion.
05-20-2018, 11:05 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
First, it is obvious you are on the CRJ. Your complaints are not universal at Mesa.
Second, some of your complaints are valid on the Ejet. Some are not. We do seem to pay a few Captains at legacy carriers each month. Southwest, United, Delta, and Alaska are some of the carriers where our pilots have gone in addition to Spirit and other carriers over the past 6 to 8 months.
Second, some of your complaints are valid on the Ejet. Some are not. We do seem to pay a few Captains at legacy carriers each month. Southwest, United, Delta, and Alaska are some of the carriers where our pilots have gone in addition to Spirit and other carriers over the past 6 to 8 months.
05-20-2018, 11:46 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Point to the part in my post where I state that my 'complaints' are universal at Mesa.
They aren't - and that was the point.
If you want to post your opinion about whether you would have come to Mesa - or not come to Mesa - then by all means . . . go right ahead.
I'm sure those considering applying here would appreciate your post.
However, should you do this, I won't 'correct' what you post.
Nor will I challenge it.
I'll just ignore it, since it really doesn't apply to me.
Kinda like you should have done with mine . . .
They aren't - and that was the point.
If you want to post your opinion about whether you would have come to Mesa - or not come to Mesa - then by all means . . . go right ahead.
I'm sure those considering applying here would appreciate your post.
However, should you do this, I won't 'correct' what you post.
Nor will I challenge it.
I'll just ignore it, since it really doesn't apply to me.
Kinda like you should have done with mine . . .
05-21-2018, 05:19 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by Brody
Point to the part in my post where I state that my 'complaints' are universal at Mesa.
They aren't - and that was the point.
If you want to post your opinion about whether you would have come to Mesa - or not come to Mesa - then by all means . . . go right ahead.
I'm sure those considering applying here would appreciate your post.
However, should you do this, I won't 'correct' what you post.
Nor will I challenge it.
I'll just ignore it, since it really doesn't apply to me.
Kinda like you should have done with mine . . .
They aren't - and that was the point.
If you want to post your opinion about whether you would have come to Mesa - or not come to Mesa - then by all means . . . go right ahead.
I'm sure those considering applying here would appreciate your post.
However, should you do this, I won't 'correct' what you post.
Nor will I challenge it.
I'll just ignore it, since it really doesn't apply to me.
Kinda like you should have done with mine . . .
I know a few CRJ guys who have done the street CA program at Envoy. I know that isn’t American but it is a 5 year flow to American. Other regionals hire Mesa pilots into their street captain programs too.
Some pilots I know here whine about not moving on to a legacy but really don’t do the things needed to move on. They don’t have a degree and aren’t working on one. They haven’t done anything beyond the minimum effort. They haven’t become a line check airman or a sim instructor or anything to enhance their resume beyond line flying.
I give advice to people coming here all the time. I tell them bluntly that the recruiting departments at the legacies prefer SkyWest or Republic (among the non-wholly owned regionals) over Mesa. (BTW, SkyWest has worse reserve policies than Mesa).
There are also reasons to come to Mesa. Living in base. Flying the Ejet. Failing at another regional’s program. Being a foreign national without a permanent visa. Someone who really wants to fly a lot without concern for QOL. Some of these guys will never move on and are lifers.
Since you are unhappy, I recommend you build your 1,000 hours right seat and move on to another regional. What I find is too many pilots have spent their signon bonus and can’t afford to move on.
05-21-2018, 06:00 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Here is what you posted 6/15/17.
Let’s get real: You are not moving on. Your resume stinks. Either find a way to enjoy life doing what you love as a pilot or find a new career. Instead, you whine that Mesa created your situation.
Originally Posted by Brody
I've worked in this business since the 80's - both at a major (not a pilot), and in the commuter airlines, which eventually became known as Regional Airlines. Let's just say I've burned a few bridges. Some of them (in retrospect) were my own screw-ups, others because I stood on principle - to the point where it cost me a job. I'm now an FO at Mesa - mostly as a result of past decisions.
05-21-2018, 08:45 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Hey Calmwinds -
Perhaps you should understand what the term 'opinion' means?
What makes YOU right - and me wrong? Did you appoint yourself the teacher - and me the student? Now that you've graded my paper, explain to us why your opinion apparently outweighs everyone else's.
Does JO pay you to do this?
I had my experiences at Mesa - and you've had yours. Write about your own if you want. Or don't - I couldn't care less either way. If this bothers you so much that you have to go back to posts I've made in the past - and use them on this post to somehow 'prove' you right - then maybe it's time to look in a mirror and ask yourself why.
I believe Mesa has an Employee Assistance program for emotional and mental health.
Maybe it's time?
I wrote an honest assessment of my time here, if I would do it all over again - and why. I did it to assist others who might be thinking of applying here. If this doesn't apply to you, then don't read it. Ignore it and move on to the next post. And trolling the forums defending Mesa - given its pathetic track record in pay and QOL - doesn't exactly help your argument.
You have NO idea what my resume looks like, who I've worked for, or what I've seen and experienced during my time in this industry - and now you're making ridiculous assumptions about me?
Flying with people like you is what makes this industry so difficult to enjoy. You know EVERYTHING - and you can't wait to get to work every day to bestow your vast knowledge on your poor, unsuspecting crew members.
Something tells me your name is on a LOT of first officers' no-fly-list . . .
Perhaps you should understand what the term 'opinion' means?
What makes YOU right - and me wrong? Did you appoint yourself the teacher - and me the student? Now that you've graded my paper, explain to us why your opinion apparently outweighs everyone else's.
Does JO pay you to do this?
I had my experiences at Mesa - and you've had yours. Write about your own if you want. Or don't - I couldn't care less either way. If this bothers you so much that you have to go back to posts I've made in the past - and use them on this post to somehow 'prove' you right - then maybe it's time to look in a mirror and ask yourself why.
I believe Mesa has an Employee Assistance program for emotional and mental health.
Maybe it's time?
I wrote an honest assessment of my time here, if I would do it all over again - and why. I did it to assist others who might be thinking of applying here. If this doesn't apply to you, then don't read it. Ignore it and move on to the next post. And trolling the forums defending Mesa - given its pathetic track record in pay and QOL - doesn't exactly help your argument.
You have NO idea what my resume looks like, who I've worked for, or what I've seen and experienced during my time in this industry - and now you're making ridiculous assumptions about me?
Flying with people like you is what makes this industry so difficult to enjoy. You know EVERYTHING - and you can't wait to get to work every day to bestow your vast knowledge on your poor, unsuspecting crew members.
Something tells me your name is on a LOT of first officers' no-fly-list . . .
05-21-2018, 08:57 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by Brody
Hey Calmwinds -
Perhaps you should understand what the term 'opinion' means?
What makes YOU right - and me wrong? Did you appoint yourself the teacher - and me the student? Now that you've graded my paper, explain to us why your opinion apparently outweighs everyone else's.
Does JO pay you to do this?
I had my experiences at Mesa - and you've had yours. Write about your own if you want. Or don't - I couldn't care less either way. If this bothers you so much that you have to go back to posts I've made in the past - and use them on this post to somehow 'prove' you right - then maybe it's time to look in a mirror and ask yourself why.
I believe Mesa has an Employee Assistance program for emotional and mental health.
Maybe it's time?
I wrote an honest assessment of my time here, if I would do it all over again - and why. I did it to assist others who might be thinking of applying here. If this doesn't apply to you, then don't read it. Ignore it and move on to the next post. And trolling the forums defending Mesa - given its pathetic track record in pay and QOL - doesn't exactly help your argument.
You have NO idea what my resume looks like, who I've worked for, or what I've seen and experienced during my time in this industry - and now you're making ridiculous assumptions about me?
Flying with people like you is what makes this industry so difficult to enjoy. You know EVERYTHING - and you can't wait to get to work every day to bestow your vast knowledge on your poor, unsuspecting crew members.
Something tells me your name is on a LOT of first officers' no-fly-list . . .
Perhaps you should understand what the term 'opinion' means?
What makes YOU right - and me wrong? Did you appoint yourself the teacher - and me the student? Now that you've graded my paper, explain to us why your opinion apparently outweighs everyone else's.
Does JO pay you to do this?
I had my experiences at Mesa - and you've had yours. Write about your own if you want. Or don't - I couldn't care less either way. If this bothers you so much that you have to go back to posts I've made in the past - and use them on this post to somehow 'prove' you right - then maybe it's time to look in a mirror and ask yourself why.
I believe Mesa has an Employee Assistance program for emotional and mental health.
Maybe it's time?
I wrote an honest assessment of my time here, if I would do it all over again - and why. I did it to assist others who might be thinking of applying here. If this doesn't apply to you, then don't read it. Ignore it and move on to the next post. And trolling the forums defending Mesa - given its pathetic track record in pay and QOL - doesn't exactly help your argument.
You have NO idea what my resume looks like, who I've worked for, or what I've seen and experienced during my time in this industry - and now you're making ridiculous assumptions about me?
Flying with people like you is what makes this industry so difficult to enjoy. You know EVERYTHING - and you can't wait to get to work every day to bestow your vast knowledge on your poor, unsuspecting crew members.
Something tells me your name is on a LOT of first officers' no-fly-list . . .
I am happy with my decision of coming here. My friends at SkyWest have proven over and over that this was the best decision for me. I have also seen FO’s and CA’s go to Southwest, Delta, United, Alaska, Spirit, Kalitta, and Envoy over the past 12 months.
I love the Ejet and you will too (assuming you bypass upgrading on the CRJ). Just find a way to be happy.
