chrisreedrules

3 failures for a single check ride is bad. But it does not necessarily show a failure of just YOU, the applicant for the certificate. Whenever a student fails a check ride (in my opinion) part of that blame falls on the student’s flight instructor.

That being said I too have been on the receiving end of a DPE who seemed out to fail someone. I failed my initial private pilot oral over what was a line of questions I was not prepared to answer. My CFI didn’t know the answers either. And my flight school never used that DPE again. It happens. But you have to own it.

Don’t try to deflect any blame on anyone, including the DPE. Own your mistakes. Use them as a way to show that you were faced with an obstacle and you overcame it and are better for it. And you shouldn’t have any problems getting on with a regional. If you would like to discuss a positive way to handle some tough questions like that in an interview setting, feel free to send me a private message and we can chat.

maxjet

If I was on an interview board and the applicant said he failed 3 times and that the DPE was at fault I would not hire them. My thought would be that this person has poor judgement skills for allowing themselves to be put in this position 3 times. I would also question how this applicant would handle instruction from one of the airline instructors.

I think first you need to acknowledge that you and only you are at fault here. Second, you have hopefully learned something from this situation that will make you the best trainee they could hire. The best Student and eventually Captain is one who can evaluate themselves and not have the ego to not then work hard on those things they are weak in.

Been doing this for a while now. I am always evaluating myself and working to improve deficiencies I uncover.

smtx123

Second this right here. Just be humble man, talk about how each failure was a learning experience and specifically what you learned, and take responsibility. That is the best possible way to go about explaining it.

Varsity

Perhaps, but probably not.

Part 61 flight instruction and check rides are like the Wild West of aviation. I have over 1000 hours dual given part 61 and some of the DPE's would bring an absolute circus act to town. Most DPE's are not 121 pilots and some haven't flown professionally in any capacity in decades. The variance in instructors is equally bad, if not worse.

To compare a part 61 check ride outcome to a respectable 121 program outcome is built on a false premise from the get go.

Phoenix21

“I struggled with my CFI and failed. The first time was X, and the second time was Y. Third time was Z. I’m the type of person who doesn’t quit easily and works to overcome their weaknesses with dedication and hard work. Since those failures I passed, became a CFI and used my own personal experiences with failure to help my Students succeed in their own training and have become a gold seal check airman at my 141 flight school.”

Find a way to own it, learn from it and spin it into a positive.

No Land 3

An aviation career is like walking through a mine field, especially early on. I jumped head first into it, was the first pilot in the family. Wish I had an older relative tell me that I shouldn't do check rides with an examiner named "Pink Slip Pinkston". His orals were short and sweet, but very little tolerance on the flight portions. Given the other options in a **** sandwich, seemed like the best choice.
The best choice would be not forcing checkeides before you are ready, and hand selecting DPE's yourself. He nailed me on my initial CFI, and CFII.

chrisreedrules

This is good advice.

skyemiles2

I’ve heard people say the same stuff about 141, and I trained and instructed in both environments.

“There’s nothing standardized about stage checks, you get some young punk on a power trip who doesn’t realize the effect they can have on someone’s career.” Or the whole, “yeah my buddy did my stage check, we just went and screwed around for two hours...” etc and so on that would be very unlikely to happen with a DPE.

Any time there’s people involved there’s going to be variability.

Universally, if something doesn’t go your way, you own it and do better next time.

rickair7777

You may be correct about the DPE's state of mind, I've seen some very strange stuff in the part 91 DPE cadre such that I stopped using certain DPE's at my school due their personal behavior, fearing that it would be disruptive in the professional realm.

But unfortunately blaming anyone but yourself will get you nowhere, in fact it will get you shown out the door.

One or two busts they would gloss right over after you make the right noises (tell them what happened and what you learned). But with that many, you'll be having a detailed conversation and they'll be paying careful attention to what you say, body language, etc. Might want to get some interview prep, even for a regional.

If you can get on with an AA flow that's probably your safest move (even that might be tough though).

But I cannot over-emphasize this... do not blame the DPE. They have no way of verifying that so the only safe course is to hire someone else.

rickair7777

All completely true, but employers don't know what happened and have no way of determining the veracity of some sob story. If you fess up and tell them what you learned they can cleanly and neatly "close the case" on that aspect of your background. But hand them some hanging chads, and they won't be able to get to a comfortable place.

Unfortunately, after Renslow they don't want pilots with "lengthy" training rap sheets on their seniority list, regardless of how much experience he has or how much he may have improved. Media and lawyers will have an absolute field day with a record like if there's an incident. Think of Tammy Jo Shultz... imagine the exact same outcome but instead of girl-hero-fighter-pilot she had a lengthy history of training issues. You know what the media would run with.

Bottom-feeder regionals are going to be the most forgiving of course.