Title Match tomorrow: Heavy Weight (Delta) VS. Middle Weight (MESA)
01-29-2009, 08:47 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 320B
Posts: 248
RichieAshburn is correct and Toilet is wrong, you can appeal an injunction. All you have to do is do a google search of "appeal an injunction" and will find many cases where there have been appeals to injunctions.
Here is the the news that came out on June 28, 2008 when Mesa won the injunction.
A federal judge reported that Delta Air Lines Inc. had assured Mesa Air Group Inc. that it wasn’t attempting to penalize the carrier when Delta moved a large percentage of Mesa’s flights to New York’s JFK Airport.
Delta used increased flight cancellations by Freedom Airlines (a Mesa subsidiary), however, to later justify terminating its agreement with Mesa, valued at $20 million per month, noted U.S. District Judge Clarence E. Cooper in his written order filed this week.
Cooper’s order had granted a preliminary injunction against Delta, halting the Atlanta-based airline from ending its contract with Mesa. The injunction was issued in May, and the judge followed up on that this week by detailing his decision in the 36-page filing.
Delta maintains that it can terminate Freedom’s contract if that carrier is unable to maintain a 95 percent completion rate or better for any three months in a six-month period.
Cooper made note in his order that Mesa had been under the impression that Delta was allowing it to exclude some of the flight cancellations at JFK in the calculated overall completion rate. Although Delta was aware that Mesa was doing this, the airline didn’t tell Mesa the calculation would be handled differently.
The judge also wrote that when Mesa’s CEO asked Delta’s COO about the move of a large number of flights to “cancel-prone” JFK, Whitehurst had said: “We’re not trying to screw you with the move…. It’s not our intention to penalize you for moving up to JFK.”
Regardless, Delta stated earlier this year that Freedom had cancelled too many flights, making it necessary to terminate the contract. Mesa officials have warned that if Delta follows through on the contract cancellation, Mesa will be forced into bankruptcy protection and 700 jobs will be lost.
A spokesperson for Delta commented that the airline is disappointed with the judge’s ruling and that an appeal is planned. Brian Gillman, general counsel for Mesa, declined to comment.
And the link: Judge grants Mesa Air injunction against Delta
Wow what a shocker, another person on this site that has NO CLUE what they are talking about, imagine that...
Here is the the news that came out on June 28, 2008 when Mesa won the injunction.
A federal judge reported that Delta Air Lines Inc. had assured Mesa Air Group Inc. that it wasn’t attempting to penalize the carrier when Delta moved a large percentage of Mesa’s flights to New York’s JFK Airport.
Delta used increased flight cancellations by Freedom Airlines (a Mesa subsidiary), however, to later justify terminating its agreement with Mesa, valued at $20 million per month, noted U.S. District Judge Clarence E. Cooper in his written order filed this week.
Cooper’s order had granted a preliminary injunction against Delta, halting the Atlanta-based airline from ending its contract with Mesa. The injunction was issued in May, and the judge followed up on that this week by detailing his decision in the 36-page filing.
Delta maintains that it can terminate Freedom’s contract if that carrier is unable to maintain a 95 percent completion rate or better for any three months in a six-month period.
Cooper made note in his order that Mesa had been under the impression that Delta was allowing it to exclude some of the flight cancellations at JFK in the calculated overall completion rate. Although Delta was aware that Mesa was doing this, the airline didn’t tell Mesa the calculation would be handled differently.
The judge also wrote that when Mesa’s CEO asked Delta’s COO about the move of a large number of flights to “cancel-prone” JFK, Whitehurst had said: “We’re not trying to screw you with the move…. It’s not our intention to penalize you for moving up to JFK.”
Regardless, Delta stated earlier this year that Freedom had cancelled too many flights, making it necessary to terminate the contract. Mesa officials have warned that if Delta follows through on the contract cancellation, Mesa will be forced into bankruptcy protection and 700 jobs will be lost.
A spokesperson for Delta commented that the airline is disappointed with the judge’s ruling and that an appeal is planned. Brian Gillman, general counsel for Mesa, declined to comment.
And the link: Judge grants Mesa Air injunction against Delta
Wow what a shocker, another person on this site that has NO CLUE what they are talking about, imagine that...
01-29-2009, 09:00 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Is Mesa the only airline that flies for DCI and in JFK, how are the others managing without being canceled? At the end of the day, maybe not tomorrow but Mesa is going to lose. Delta doesn't owe anything to Mesa. I admit I have no idea what the contract says but I would imagine it's heavily favored towards a Delta if they want to pull out. JO also recently hinted that they want to get this over with quick.
01-29-2009, 09:07 PM
#45
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by RichieAshburn
I don't think toilet duck is correct. Delta appealed the injunction. If the injunction is lifted, DAL can cancel the contract.
A preliminary injunction, or an interlocutory injunction, is a provisional remedy granted to restrain activity on a temporary basis until the court can make a final decision after trial.
arizonastpilot you act like I have something to owe the Mesa pilot group. Maybe you can give me a reason why I should be so supportive? I know it's a bad situation for those there but that doesn't mean I'm suppose to be supportive because someone will lose their job. I knew the place was a horrible work environment 8yrs ago when I was in flight training and avoided it like the plague. Whether it was because of the promise of an extremely quick upgrade or the guys chasing a jet after 300hrs of flight time a lot of people went there to cut corners. Some got the experience they wanted and left and now others are getting the shaft. That's life. How many employees are walking around in Hawaii looking a job right now? You expect me to feel sorry for a bottom feeding company going out of business after it put a very well respected airline with happy employees on the street? Think twice my friend because I'll do no such thing. Let it burn to the ground for all I care. This isn't about me chasing a left seat it's about the law of averages. The industry as a whole will do better with the ones on the bottom gone. An airline that knowingly operates jets at a loss simply to run others out of business while at the same time giving their employees a contract that's not worth the paper it's on needs to go. The writing has been on this wall forever so don't expect sympathy from me.
It's like some girl that keeps being beaten by her boyfriend. She comes crying and you sit there and listen and try to help her out. After several times of going back you finally have to say "ok you made that choice I'm sorry its come to this but I don't want to hear it". That's about where I stand.
01-29-2009, 09:16 PM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: doggy style
Posts: 1,006
Originally Posted by CRJPlt
RichieAshburn is correct and Toilet is wrong, you can appeal an injunction. All you have to do is do a google search of "appeal an injunction" and will find many cases where there have been appeals to injunctions.
Here is the the news that came out on June 28, 2008 when Mesa won the injunction.
A federal judge reported that Delta Air Lines Inc. had assured Mesa Air Group Inc. that it wasn’t attempting to penalize the carrier when Delta moved a large percentage of Mesa’s flights to New York’s JFK Airport.
Delta used increased flight cancellations by Freedom Airlines (a Mesa subsidiary), however, to later justify terminating its agreement with Mesa, valued at $20 million per month, noted U.S. District Judge Clarence E. Cooper in his written order filed this week.
Cooper’s order had granted a preliminary injunction against Delta, halting the Atlanta-based airline from ending its contract with Mesa. The injunction was issued in May, and the judge followed up on that this week by detailing his decision in the 36-page filing.
Delta maintains that it can terminate Freedom’s contract if that carrier is unable to maintain a 95 percent completion rate or better for any three months in a six-month period.
Cooper made note in his order that Mesa had been under the impression that Delta was allowing it to exclude some of the flight cancellations at JFK in the calculated overall completion rate. Although Delta was aware that Mesa was doing this, the airline didn’t tell Mesa the calculation would be handled differently.
The judge also wrote that when Mesa’s CEO asked Delta’s COO about the move of a large number of flights to “cancel-prone” JFK, Whitehurst had said: “We’re not trying to screw you with the move…. It’s not our intention to penalize you for moving up to JFK.”
Regardless, Delta stated earlier this year that Freedom had cancelled too many flights, making it necessary to terminate the contract. Mesa officials have warned that if Delta follows through on the contract cancellation, Mesa will be forced into bankruptcy protection and 700 jobs will be lost.
A spokesperson for Delta commented that the airline is disappointed with the judge’s ruling and that an appeal is planned. Brian Gillman, general counsel for Mesa, declined to comment.
And the link: Judge grants Mesa Air injunction against Delta
Wow what a shocker, another person on this site that has NO CLUE what they are talking about, imagine that...
Here is the the news that came out on June 28, 2008 when Mesa won the injunction.
A federal judge reported that Delta Air Lines Inc. had assured Mesa Air Group Inc. that it wasn’t attempting to penalize the carrier when Delta moved a large percentage of Mesa’s flights to New York’s JFK Airport.
Delta used increased flight cancellations by Freedom Airlines (a Mesa subsidiary), however, to later justify terminating its agreement with Mesa, valued at $20 million per month, noted U.S. District Judge Clarence E. Cooper in his written order filed this week.
Cooper’s order had granted a preliminary injunction against Delta, halting the Atlanta-based airline from ending its contract with Mesa. The injunction was issued in May, and the judge followed up on that this week by detailing his decision in the 36-page filing.
Delta maintains that it can terminate Freedom’s contract if that carrier is unable to maintain a 95 percent completion rate or better for any three months in a six-month period.
Cooper made note in his order that Mesa had been under the impression that Delta was allowing it to exclude some of the flight cancellations at JFK in the calculated overall completion rate. Although Delta was aware that Mesa was doing this, the airline didn’t tell Mesa the calculation would be handled differently.
The judge also wrote that when Mesa’s CEO asked Delta’s COO about the move of a large number of flights to “cancel-prone” JFK, Whitehurst had said: “We’re not trying to screw you with the move…. It’s not our intention to penalize you for moving up to JFK.”
Regardless, Delta stated earlier this year that Freedom had cancelled too many flights, making it necessary to terminate the contract. Mesa officials have warned that if Delta follows through on the contract cancellation, Mesa will be forced into bankruptcy protection and 700 jobs will be lost.
A spokesperson for Delta commented that the airline is disappointed with the judge’s ruling and that an appeal is planned. Brian Gillman, general counsel for Mesa, declined to comment.
And the link: Judge grants Mesa Air injunction against Delta
Wow what a shocker, another person on this site that has NO CLUE what they are talking about, imagine that...
Holy crap! There it is.... I was sooo right in my last thread, and there is some on here who have just been foolishly proven wrong.
I would love to see some of you who say Mesa has no evidence to refute the above.
01-29-2009, 09:27 PM
#47
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
I've been searching and have not come across anything that says DAL appealed Mesa. I haven't found anything that says the going to court was the result of an appeal and not as a result of the initial injunction. I have found places that reference the injunction and mention a later court date suggesting that after the injunction was won by Mesa that a court date was established so they could get their argument together. The arguments from both Mesa and DAL have yet to be made and will be done at the court hearings. If DAL loses the court hearing then they could appeal the ruling. Maybe I'm wrong on this as the information provided to the public is limited. However one things for sure and that's that there's no way a regional like Mesa can out maneuver big D. I hope they go down sooner rather than later.
I'll emphasize again I'm no lawyer and perhaps it's just me not finding the proper articles about DAL having actually made an appeal but my google skills have found nothing saying DAL actually appealed anything and this court hearing is a result of that appeal. It's really a mute point and doesn't matter about who put the pen to the paper first on this. Point is that Mesa will have to substantiate their claims. Seeing is how they have a long history of illegal actions on the corporate level tangled with an incredibly shady reputation; ie deleting hard drives for porn, dodging SEC filings, etc. I find it hard to believe they'll be able to produce anything substantial to support their claims.
I'll emphasize again I'm no lawyer and perhaps it's just me not finding the proper articles about DAL having actually made an appeal but my google skills have found nothing saying DAL actually appealed anything and this court hearing is a result of that appeal. It's really a mute point and doesn't matter about who put the pen to the paper first on this. Point is that Mesa will have to substantiate their claims. Seeing is how they have a long history of illegal actions on the corporate level tangled with an incredibly shady reputation; ie deleting hard drives for porn, dodging SEC filings, etc. I find it hard to believe they'll be able to produce anything substantial to support their claims.
Last edited by ToiletDuck; 01-29-2009 at 09:36 PM.
01-29-2009, 09:27 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Holy crap! There it is.... I was sooo right in my last thread, and there is some on here who have just been foolishly proven wrong.
I would love to see some of you who say Mesa has no evidence to refute the above.
I would love to see some of you who say Mesa has no evidence to refute the above.
01-29-2009, 09:44 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 320B
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
I've been searching and have not come across anything that says DAL appealed Mesa. I haven't found anything that says the going to court was the result of an appeal and not as a result of the initial injunction. I have found places that reference the injunction and mention a later court date suggesting that after the injunction was won by Mesa that a court date was established so they could get their argument together. The arguments from both Mesa and DAL have yet to be made and will be done at the court hearings. If DAL loses the court hearing then they could appeal the ruling. Maybe I'm wrong on this as the information provided to the public is limited. However one things for sure and that's that there's no way a regional like Mesa can out maneuver big D. I hope they go down sooner rather than later.
I'll emphasize again I'm no lawyer and perhaps it's just me not finding the proper articles about DAL having actually made an appeal but my google skills have found nothing saying DAL actually appealed anything and this court hearing is a result of that appeal. It's really a mute point and doesn't matter about who put the pen to the paper first on this. Point is that Mesa will have to substantiate their claims. Seeing is how they have a long history of illegal actions on the corporate level tangled with an incredibly shady reputation; ie deleting hard drives for porn, dodging SEC filings, etc. I find it hard to believe they'll be able to produce anything substantial to support their claims.
I'll emphasize again I'm no lawyer and perhaps it's just me not finding the proper articles about DAL having actually made an appeal but my google skills have found nothing saying DAL actually appealed anything and this court hearing is a result of that appeal. It's really a mute point and doesn't matter about who put the pen to the paper first on this. Point is that Mesa will have to substantiate their claims. Seeing is how they have a long history of illegal actions on the corporate level tangled with an incredibly shady reputation; ie deleting hard drives for porn, dodging SEC filings, etc. I find it hard to believe they'll be able to produce anything substantial to support their claims.
Well I too have done my digging and found this on some searching:
NOTICE OF APPEAL
Notice is hereby given that Defendant Delta Air Lines, Inc. appeals to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit from the Order Granting Motion For Preliminary Injunction entered by Judge Clarence Cooper of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia on June 25, 2008Check and Mate...
01-29-2009, 09:45 PM
#50
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: doggy style
Posts: 1,006
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
However one things for sure and that's that there's no way a regional like Mesa can out maneuver big D. I hope they go down sooner rather than later.
Originally Posted by Purpleanga
I hope Mesa has some better lawyers than you guys. Because of course Delta is lying, Mesa is one of the best performing airlines out there. After all this is what the lawsuit is about, failing to be on-time.
It is not about on-time, it is about COMPLETION FACTOR. Let's spell this out for those who seem to be slow:
-Mesa enters a contract way back when with Delta. It's language is ambiguous, leaving it open for interpretation. All is good for both sides, though. Both are happy to be partners.
-Mesa is moved to JFK. DL reassures Mesa that this was not meant to penalize them.
-DL changes management. This new management has different views. It interprets the contract a different way. Specifically the part about 'completion factor'. Here, it is worded so that it does not include whether it is controllable or uncontrollable or both.
-DL looks to trim capacity. What perfect way other than to 're-interpret' the contract.
-DL tells Mesa to cancel flights so mainline can depart/arrive. Flights are coded to ATC/weather, ie uncontrollable cxls...
-DL informs Mesa of contract cancellation.
-Mesa files lawsuit and injunction.
-Mesa proves they have a case and wins injunction.
-DL appeals injunction.
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