What could a potential Mesa New hire expect?
 

Hi all,

I have been out of the airline industry for over 10yrs. and based on current events have decided to jump back in. When I left the industry in 2004, I had a good feel for most of the regionals, who to work for who not to based on my career goals etc..., but things have somewhat changed and I'm at a loss to accurately evaluate a regional, getting there but need more input, hence this post.

I knew the Mesa of old (prior 2003) and would like to know about the current Mesa 2014/15 and some predictions of where they might be headed (I know, the industry is crazy right now, but any predictions would be appreciated)....

Background.
Without going into too much detail..
+5500 hrs, both military and civillian (army-helicopter and c-12 time), prior 121, +/- 1500hrs (about 400s 121 PIC), corporate, total FW +/-3000hrs.
still working on degree.

Situation
Live in PHX, would like to be based in domicile...willing to commute for awhile to wait out time to get PHX, don't want to commute indefinitely 1-2-3yrs etc.. However I will commute in order to get current 121 time/experience to maybe hire on with a major/legacy.

I did the phone interview with Mesa, and got the offer, 900's.

Would like to know what awaits me from class date through the next year, anyones experiences with this etc...

Told by interviewer...
PHX is 6-8 months out for me to hold...
Upgrade time 1.5yrs, but conservatively, 2yrs. (mentioned that upgrade is now not only based on seniority, but also CA recommends???)
DFW or IAH as a domicile until PHX...

My fears/concerns...
Heard mention that all 900's are out of DFW, 700's are the one that are based in PHX, so actually no PHX for me?
Reduced lines in PHX this month, will that stay or just a blip?
Yes would like to upgrade quickly, $$$ and moving on to Major/Legacy, but is that upgrade time really happening.

Last but not least, the training department and climate... I don't plan on failing out of a program, never have, but sometimes I've seen certain personalities force people out in a bad way, in other words personality conflicts, how is the training staff, and curriculum at Mesa? in other words do they throw a bunch of pilots into the training and see what comes out the other end? 50% 60% 70%????

Thanks for any feedback...:D:D:D

Forgot to ask...

Does Mesa now have anything resembling a commuter policy???

Also,
Reserves, for a new hire expected wait for a hard line, and what is the call out time 2hrs.?

Ohhhhhheeeee,
Sitdown, strapin, and get ready to partay!

You can expect to fly previous envoy's routes.

Good Luck!

First off, thank you for your service. To give you an honest answer, don't come back. I feel you are setting yourself up for disappointment. While your time in the military is impressive, C-12 and helo time do not correlate to hiring at a major. IMO it should, but HR runs the show now! I have seen way too many guys burn out at the regionals, thinking they will be there for 2 years and be out! If you are looking at non-flow carrier, I would expect another 3-7 years, depending on your credentials.

If you are still interested, I am assuming you are from PHX and wish to stay there. So, I would recommend working towards AA. The fastest path is either through Envoy or Piedmont with a direct flow. Off the street hires are slim to none, if you do not have large aircraft fixed wing time in the military. PSA has a preferential interview, but it is around 8 years for a new hire, and AA can delay hiring.

Good info, and thanks for your response.

Do you feel these times might come down with all this movement going on at the regionals, and seemingly lack of pilots, would this eventually hit at the Majors?

Thanks again.

The regionals are gonna be hurtin like Great Lakes is now. Skywest didn't lower the bar, they unhooked it and threw it away. The airline lifestyle is different than anything else out there. If DAL or your flavor of choice don't call immediately, the lack of 121 might be the reason, jump into a regional, check the 121 box and DAL will be knocking down your door. Military trained aviators are a special treat for the majors, the regionals are gonna look at you like a transient, but will hire you nonetheless. The majors in the future will try and poach new meat from other carriers due to the lead time necessary for training new fish. For all those that say "I would be there if the pay was better", I say if there was ever a better time with a positively golden future, its now, and if you aren't in the supply chain right now, you will never enter it. Anybody employed at a regional right now will retire making an unbelievable amount.

Majors are closer than you think once you get a degree. C12 and helo time are fine. That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. With prior 121 time you'll upgrade quick but will be in dfw. I'm in a similar boat. After work I'll pm you more gouge

It will be 2025 before hiring at the Majors feel the effects of the lack of pilots. Ask around for how many qualified pilots are out there with 1000 turbine. 10-12k right now, with more being pumped through the military and civilian world to replenish it. I could possibly see more mainline jobs being created as a result of the regionals not being able to staff.

A good estimate is for every 3 50 seat aircraft not staffed (24 pilots), they can throw a narrow-body on that route (8 pilots). So you could see hiring pick up a bit, but I don't see too much of an increase. DAL already is hiring for the 717 to replace RJ's. AA is slowly ramping up with their A319 orders. UAL is adding additional narrow-bodies. You can see about 100 more people hired per year, or about 25% increase from the retirement numbers posted per year.

What are your Major airline choices in order? If you are considering DAL, they will not look at you without a 4 year. Also, they rank the school and how much time it took to acquire your degree. Food for thought.

A complete rundown of your qualifications would yield a better guess of when you can get a call. It is more than about flight time. As taken from your first post, you are middle to lower of the pack. However, filling in some information would get you a better evaluation, to determine how many years to get to a major.

Education: 0/5 no degree yet, GPA?
Community service: Volunteering? Aviation organization involvement?
Flight Training: 3/5 military training, but not air force/navy. Instructor Certificates?
Flight Experience: 3/5 low 121 pic turbine, lack of heavy time. LCA?
Employment: 3/5 left aviation for desk job? Other responsibilities in military?

Thanks, for the bash. I didn't say for him not to go to Mesa, but to look at other options. My opinion is unbiased, considering I work at none of the carriers mentioned.

Agree that C-12 and helo time are better than no military time. Don't know what that guy is smoking. Would something like KC-135s or C-17s look better? Maybe. But military flight school is military flight school. If it came down to you or a civilian flight instructor, they're going to take you all other things being equal. Priority one should be to get that degree ASAP. Majors won't look at you without it.

135's and C-17 do look better. That is what the heavy aircraft check-box is for. I never said C-12 and helo time are insignificant, but they will score lower than a C-130, due to the large aircraft category. There are some helo pilots that have been hired, but it is few and far between. Go look at the who's been hired thread and accomplish everything you physically can to be on that list.

Absolutely, they would take a military trained pilot over a civilian pilot if everything else was equal, but a civ trained pilot usually doesn't fly a C-12 or helo. He is competing against the hundreds of captain's who have tons of TPIC with 4 year degrees, etc.

I am just giving the guy advice, my word is not the gospel. There is more than one way to make it. Evaluate everyone's advice, because diversity gives you mixed opinions.

I'll answer your Mesa questions...

They just displaced some FOs out of PHX due to a reduction in flying. There is no anticipated growth in PHX, so any new vacancies will happen from attrition/upgrades for the time being. Most junior FO I think is a Dec 2014 hire.

The only 700 base is IAD. IAH is E175 only, so you won't get based there. Just for clarification, you have a CRJ class date and can be placed in any of the CRJ bases, not just the 900.

Right now, it's hard to say for upgrade time. Awards have gone as far down as 8 months or so, but it's very difficult to say what will happen in the future. We have about 12 more aircraft scheduled for delivery through the end of this year. Without additional flying/aircraft after that, upgrades slow down to attrition only. Mesa has experienced pretty slow attrition for the last year or so. That may be picking up a little now, but the flood gates haven't opened yet. Since at least the 2003 contract there has been a requirement for 2 Captains you have flown with to write letters of recommendation in order for you to upgrade. I highly doubt anyone gets passed over because of that.

Mesa training is very good. No one in the training department is there to wash anyone out due to personality conflicts.

PM sent. Let me know if you have more questions.

I wouldn't count on seeing PHX before a year.

Most all my FW time is in the civilian market, C-12 accounts for only about 500hrs, all the rest is DHC-6/EMB-120/and CL601 time. No heavy time, CL60 at around what 25K is the biggest Ive flown FW.

Thanks.

Taking in all I can from good to bad, want to get a full picture of whatI'm about to get into, thanks...

Come prepared make your training events successful. Mesa does need pilots but the are not going to give anyone the keys to a jet. Honestly you must put in the effort. Know your flows, callouts, limitations and profiles. Take the training seriously, Mesa is going to give you every oppurtunity to pass, but you must work for it. The biggest inhibitor for success here is you.
The training department here is world class, the people are held accountable for thier actions and I have witnessed 1 guy with some issues who was here for upgrade do a carpet dance for an issue.

The personalities in the training department are there for your success. No one that I know of is setting folks up to fail or doing
something to try and get back at someone, unless your a douche, anal orifice, or just a bad personality type. If that is the case, you will get asked to leave, you will know the reason also. That happened to a guy some time back. But as far as some of the stuff that other regionals do while in training to try and set you up to fail- Nope.
If, and that is a mighty big IF, Mesa has an open door policy but you would follow the chain, I have witnessed 1 guy who had some training issues but it was because of the way the instructor and him interacted. He was given a new instructor and was sucessful in making it to the line.
I think you will like coming here, but again do what it take to make your way a success. Some may say Mesa just babies you along, the training is joke, or other negative things. I suggest you come and find out for yourself and make your own conclusion. You -I believe will not be disappointed.
Now the good stuff, the upgrade time is happening, down now to 5 months (on the CRJ) A little longer on the E-jet. (Straight from J.O.) With your time, (prior 121) You should be able to bid for a Captain slot, check into that.

Close to a T.A. but I don't know the deets yet. PHX is in flux. Currently shrinking, but may grow again. If you come aboard expect DFW or IAD. Can't say if you would get PHX, maybe later but highly doubtful now.(CRJ side). I honestly can't say. In DFW it is projected that new hires will be able to hold a line right out of training VERY soon.

In conclusion, you will be a well prepared competent pilot ready to execute your duties in a safe professional environment. You will have what you need to prepare yourself for those task. How you apply them, is up to you. Remember a farmer who expects a crop but does not put his hand to the plow has nothing to reap for his reward. May you come prepared positive attitude and ready to work.
Take Care.

There are very few FO's at Mesa right now that can upgrade right now, at this moment in time. Everyone is busting their butts for open time to get their 1000 121 time.
What you can expect is DFW as a base, very short time on reserve as an FO, and with your 121 time, most likely the most jr guy to upgrade thus far. You can also expect outrageous medical benefit costs if you need it for a family. PSA is hands down the winner when it comes to medical benefits.

Skywest has a small phx base. I don't know how long it would take to hold it.

As of right now, around a year. It's future is uncertain with only 11 or so -200s and 4 -900s however.

Several carriers (most?) give you zero credit for your helo time. IMO you need to compare your resume as a civilian resume with prior military service.

Getting back into the saddle and cranking out hours(recent experience) with hopefully a quick upgrade is a good plan. The first road block you're facing is the lack of a four year degree. Out of all the guys hired I just saw the second or third announcement of a non four year degree guy hired. That's a really small pool and I'd assume that their resumes were impressive in other areas.

I recommend guys look at multi year plans. What's your resume look like in 1,2,3,4,5 years if you do plan A? Or plan B? If you're not competitive now work on a plan that makes you competitive when all the squares are filled at some year in the future.

Good luck.

How set are you on non-commuting from PHX? (are you not willing to commute from PHX to work at UAL/DAL for example if you are not then you're looking at AA as your only future major airline destination.) you said you were willing to commute short term to get current, but wanted to live in domicile PHX long term - so also for UAL/DAL?
How set are you with working for AA to get PHX?
How much longer are you looking at for an airline career? mid-40's, mid-30's, mid-50's?

I think you'd be competitive for JetBlue/Virgin/Southwest/Frontier/Spirit/Allegiant with 4000 FW once you get current with any regional (and get a degree).... Have you written off these carriers and only the big 3 is your goal?

So if staying with AA to get PHX, in the future 50% of AA newhires will be coming from Envoy. Problem is that going to any of the AAG regional means that your only way to get into AA is through their flow programs. The likelihood of circumventing the flow through program and trying to get hired off the street is not very likely (though it has been done.)

With a non-AAG regional, like Mesa, Republic, Skywest, Endeavor, Compass, Transstates, you'll be able to apply to AA like every other normal person would and just wait to see if you get picked up for an interview.

Depending on your age, you might have a lot of time to keep starting over - get current at a regional, move to a LCC, then try your shot at AA. If you go to UAL or DAL, will you'll be commuting from PHX for the rest of your career.

As far as CA recommendations for upgrade, Mesa has always required 2 CA letter of recommendations in order to bid for upgrade, it's to prevent those who really aren't captain material from upgrading (i.e do you have common sense.) If you're a normal person, it's pretty easy to get. I only know of 1 person who works/worked at Mesa who couldn't get a CA recommendation letter.

What could a potential Mesa New hire expect?
 

filllleerrr

If we don't get new aircraft I don't think you'll be upgrading at all. Every month guys who were new to 12 1are meeting the time requirements.

There is one major carrier that doesn't count helo time for anything, and that is southwest. DAL/UAL require 1000 fw turbine hours, and AA doesn't have a fixed wing hour requirement other than ATP mins. They count helo time though. Plenty of army pilots at UAL I have talked to and several at the others as well.

Your opinion about comparing his resume with a civilian's is inaccurate according to most mainline recruiters I've talked to. Mil flight training and experience checks a separate box, and they don't exclude army.

People go straight from Great Lakes flying nothing larger than a big kingair (1900) to majors. Not sure why people keep thinking c12 time is insignificant.

Degree is the biggest hurdle IMO. And recency if you haven't flown much lately. I wouldn't be too worried about an upgrade with your 121 pic time and mil PIC time.

Good questions,
I'm currently just focusing on the regional slice of the pie, but would I move from PHX, oh yeah. What I really didn't explain was that for the 1st. year on FO pay a move would be financially impossible, also if moving on to a major/LCC were in the cards say 2-3-4 years for me, I would commute for the regional piece then move to domicile once on at the majors/LCC. Why spend $$ on a move when you might be faced with it again in a relatively short amount of time.

No haven't written off any potential larger carriers at all...I do feel as though I'm close to being competitive for them but not quite there yet.

I'm just over 50 so this will be my last go-around for the airlines, good or bad....

Good news on the CA recommends, I feel I have just as sound judgement as the next guy...best scenario is to get a fast upgrade, knock out school, life might be good then....

Thx

Yeah you really don't have much time to keep starting over at the bottom of a seniority list. (maybe twice if it's within a short period of time - 5-6 years max)

If I were in your shoes, I'd apply to all the regionals and LCCs and get the degree. don't want for the upgrade to apply to the LCCs, just get them out there. The regionals will definitely call first, but if you get on with a LCC without having to go to a regional, all the better for you. I really don't think it will take much more for you to be competitive with the LCC after you get current. Once you get the degree you can add the apps for DAL/UAL/AAG to rotation of applications you need to keep updating to get out of the regionals.

Mesa is a flaming dumpster fire. You can literally go anywhere right now. Avoid at all costs.

To the OP, there's lots of good advice in this thread. Your resume currently, given your lack of currency, probably isn't going to get you a call at a major yet -- maybe for 6+ months or a year, who knows.

Good plan to get back to a regional that is convenient to work at from your home in PHX. You have to balance, though, the ease in commuting/basing with the realistic possibility that whatever regional you are with may be your home for a year or three. So, don't pick somewhere that might appear to offer the possibility of a less-bad commute but isn't somewhere you want to work for the next three years.

If you want to stay out west/south, look at all of the west coast basing options, including SkyWest and Compass. According to SkyWest, here are recent times to hold various west bases (some of which would be extremely easy commutes from PHX):

FO in SFO 4 months
FO in IAH 5 months
FO in DEN 5 months
FO in COS 5 months
FO in LAX 7 months
FO in SEA 9 Months
FO in SLC 10 months
FO in PHX 1 year 3 months

Compass, also, has LAX as its junior base (would be a short, but somewhat crowded, commute from PHX according to the Compass thread), and is opening Seattle soon.

As has been said, apply everywhere (including all the majors and LCCs) but take a path that will advance your professional resume while you are waiting. Take an easy-commute job at a 121 regional, and hope that the call from somewhere "better" comes sooner rather than later.

Why not go after the LCCs/ULCCs right now. If you hit up a Frontier job fair, and present yourself well, they'll take a serious look at you with your quals.

No reason to Mesa yourself :D