Mesa 3.0
#3702
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: lav dumper
Posts: 707
I'm not even Mesa, but XJT. I saw the letter, it's making a round about on the web. Good on your LEC. I'll post it below since nobody has done so.
April 21, 2017
Ladies and Gentlemen,
In times past, Mesa was a stepping stone to reach the major airlines, whether that was United, Delta, American, or Southwest. Pilots stayed just long enough with Mesa so they could get their 1,000 hours of turbine PC time before one of the majors scooped them up.
Even though the majors are hiring at record numbers, the pilots they are hiring are no longer coming from Mesa, despite the hundreds of qualified pilots here. Case in point, in 2016 United hired 8 Mesa pilots, American hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, Delta hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, and Southwest hired less than 10 Mesa pilots. In 2016, United hired 280 ExpressJet pilots; American hired a similar number from Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont; and Delta got the majority of its pilots from Endeavor.
Why is this important? Well, if your goal is to work for a major airline, you have ask yourself now whether you are standing on the right stepping stone and consider a lateral career move. PSA, Envoy, and Piedmont have a guaranteed job progression to American, and $60,000 first-year pay with bonuses, not to mention work rules and health-care premiums 60 percent less than here at Mesa. Endeavor has a similar job progression path to Delta. Air Wisconsin and CommutAir have career paths to United, without even mentioning ExpressJet. You owe it to yourself, or whoever bankrolled your education, to ask if Spirit, Allegiant, or Atlas are good enough for you. If so, you are in the right place. If not, then it is time to stop working at a place that continues to hold you in low regard with bottom of the industry pay and treatment of you. We see no reason to believe that this is going to change. The only change you can control is who you work for. You want a reasonable pay and career progression? Then go to a company that can provide it.
Sincerely,
April 21, 2017
Ladies and Gentlemen,
In times past, Mesa was a stepping stone to reach the major airlines, whether that was United, Delta, American, or Southwest. Pilots stayed just long enough with Mesa so they could get their 1,000 hours of turbine PC time before one of the majors scooped them up.
Even though the majors are hiring at record numbers, the pilots they are hiring are no longer coming from Mesa, despite the hundreds of qualified pilots here. Case in point, in 2016 United hired 8 Mesa pilots, American hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, Delta hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, and Southwest hired less than 10 Mesa pilots. In 2016, United hired 280 ExpressJet pilots; American hired a similar number from Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont; and Delta got the majority of its pilots from Endeavor.
Why is this important? Well, if your goal is to work for a major airline, you have ask yourself now whether you are standing on the right stepping stone and consider a lateral career move. PSA, Envoy, and Piedmont have a guaranteed job progression to American, and $60,000 first-year pay with bonuses, not to mention work rules and health-care premiums 60 percent less than here at Mesa. Endeavor has a similar job progression path to Delta. Air Wisconsin and CommutAir have career paths to United, without even mentioning ExpressJet. You owe it to yourself, or whoever bankrolled your education, to ask if Spirit, Allegiant, or Atlas are good enough for you. If so, you are in the right place. If not, then it is time to stop working at a place that continues to hold you in low regard with bottom of the industry pay and treatment of you. We see no reason to believe that this is going to change. The only change you can control is who you work for. You want a reasonable pay and career progression? Then go to a company that can provide it.
Sincerely,
#3703
Thanks Dirk.
I'm glad somebody in the union is finally conveying an honest, straightforward, pragmatic message instead of waiting for a glacial bureaucratic process to take effect or for JO to see the error of his ways. I'm also genuinely curious as to who the MEC has allegedly been "receiving several complaints" from. Were somebody's feelings hurt? What injury can they possibly claim?
Well, a pilot shortage does further our interests at the bargaining table, so... no dues for Hughes.
I'm glad somebody in the union is finally conveying an honest, straightforward, pragmatic message instead of waiting for a glacial bureaucratic process to take effect or for JO to see the error of his ways. I'm also genuinely curious as to who the MEC has allegedly been "receiving several complaints" from. Were somebody's feelings hurt? What injury can they possibly claim?
This message is not only inconsistent with your MEC’s goals, but has done nothing to further our interests at the bargaining table.
#3704
Here is a short story I wrote inspired by that email.
Mesa Marvin sits alone at lunch during school. His lunch a fig bar and a cup of ramen noodles. Twin brothers PSA Paul and PDT Pat walk nervously past Mesa Marvin. They eye his new clothing, but can't help but notice a foul odor coming from Mesa Marvin's direction. Envoy Evan greets PSA Paul and PDT Paul, and quickly whisks them away, remembering the time Mesa Marvin stole pencils from Envoy Evan's locker.
As he opens his stolen package of figs, Mesa Marvin looks at the trio and thinks to himself, "Hmph, at least there will be less competetion at United and Delta."
Commutair Chris and Air Wisconsin Allen greet each other with high-fives and excitedly talk about about how to best prepare for their interview at United. Mesa Marcin glares from his lonely bench at the pair and thinks to himself, "Hmph, at least there will be less competition at Delta."
Endeavor Eric walks through the quad, dollar bills spilling out from his pockets, and onto the floor. Mesa Marvin notices the shiny new hat atop Endeavor Eric's proud noggin. Mesa Marvin rubs the top of his balding head, thinned from years of stress of not knowing when his next meal would come. "Hmph, I didn't want to work at Delta anyway. Buncha type-A nerds and military types."
Watching all this from behind a corner, ATI Andre and Atlas Andrew come and sit next to Mesa Marvin, offering him a bite of stale beef jerky that smelled like rubber. "You know you don't belong with them," ATI Andre says. "I have friends that would like to meet you. We all want to meet you, friend. ACMI is the way, and the life." Atlas Andrew offers Mesa Marvin a cool, red drink from a cup.
Mesa Marvin takes the cup with both hands. He recalls the faces of his family. The smiles and joy when he passed his primary school exams--all the seemingly endless days and nights he spent to get to this point. He had made a decision. He was no longer going to be the stinky kid.
As he opens his stolen package of figs, Mesa Marvin looks at the trio and thinks to himself, "Hmph, at least there will be less competetion at United and Delta."
Commutair Chris and Air Wisconsin Allen greet each other with high-fives and excitedly talk about about how to best prepare for their interview at United. Mesa Marcin glares from his lonely bench at the pair and thinks to himself, "Hmph, at least there will be less competition at Delta."
Endeavor Eric walks through the quad, dollar bills spilling out from his pockets, and onto the floor. Mesa Marvin notices the shiny new hat atop Endeavor Eric's proud noggin. Mesa Marvin rubs the top of his balding head, thinned from years of stress of not knowing when his next meal would come. "Hmph, I didn't want to work at Delta anyway. Buncha type-A nerds and military types."
Watching all this from behind a corner, ATI Andre and Atlas Andrew come and sit next to Mesa Marvin, offering him a bite of stale beef jerky that smelled like rubber. "You know you don't belong with them," ATI Andre says. "I have friends that would like to meet you. We all want to meet you, friend. ACMI is the way, and the life." Atlas Andrew offers Mesa Marvin a cool, red drink from a cup.
Mesa Marvin takes the cup with both hands. He recalls the faces of his family. The smiles and joy when he passed his primary school exams--all the seemingly endless days and nights he spent to get to this point. He had made a decision. He was no longer going to be the stinky kid.
#3705
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
I'm not even Mesa, but XJT. I saw the letter, it's making a round about on the web. Good on your LEC. I'll post it below since nobody has done so.
April 21, 2017
Ladies and Gentlemen,
In times past, Mesa was a stepping stone to reach the major airlines, whether that was United, Delta, American, or Southwest. Pilots stayed just long enough with Mesa so they could get their 1,000 hours of turbine PC time before one of the majors scooped them up.
Even though the majors are hiring at record numbers, the pilots they are hiring are no longer coming from Mesa, despite the hundreds of qualified pilots here. Case in point, in 2016 United hired 8 Mesa pilots, American hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, Delta hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, and Southwest hired less than 10 Mesa pilots. In 2016, United hired 280 ExpressJet pilots; American hired a similar number from Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont; and Delta got the majority of its pilots from Endeavor.
Why is this important? Well, if your goal is to work for a major airline, you have ask yourself now whether you are standing on the right stepping stone and consider a lateral career move. PSA, Envoy, and Piedmont have a guaranteed job progression to American, and $60,000 first-year pay with bonuses, not to mention work rules and health-care premiums 60 percent less than here at Mesa. Endeavor has a similar job progression path to Delta. Air Wisconsin and CommutAir have career paths to United, without even mentioning ExpressJet. You owe it to yourself, or whoever bankrolled your education, to ask if Spirit, Allegiant, or Atlas are good enough for you. If so, you are in the right place. If not, then it is time to stop working at a place that continues to hold you in low regard with bottom of the industry pay and treatment of you. We see no reason to believe that this is going to change. The only change you can control is who you work for. You want a reasonable pay and career progression? Then go to a company that can provide it.
Sincerely,
April 21, 2017
Ladies and Gentlemen,
In times past, Mesa was a stepping stone to reach the major airlines, whether that was United, Delta, American, or Southwest. Pilots stayed just long enough with Mesa so they could get their 1,000 hours of turbine PC time before one of the majors scooped them up.
Even though the majors are hiring at record numbers, the pilots they are hiring are no longer coming from Mesa, despite the hundreds of qualified pilots here. Case in point, in 2016 United hired 8 Mesa pilots, American hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, Delta hired less than 10 Mesa pilots, and Southwest hired less than 10 Mesa pilots. In 2016, United hired 280 ExpressJet pilots; American hired a similar number from Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont; and Delta got the majority of its pilots from Endeavor.
Why is this important? Well, if your goal is to work for a major airline, you have ask yourself now whether you are standing on the right stepping stone and consider a lateral career move. PSA, Envoy, and Piedmont have a guaranteed job progression to American, and $60,000 first-year pay with bonuses, not to mention work rules and health-care premiums 60 percent less than here at Mesa. Endeavor has a similar job progression path to Delta. Air Wisconsin and CommutAir have career paths to United, without even mentioning ExpressJet. You owe it to yourself, or whoever bankrolled your education, to ask if Spirit, Allegiant, or Atlas are good enough for you. If so, you are in the right place. If not, then it is time to stop working at a place that continues to hold you in low regard with bottom of the industry pay and treatment of you. We see no reason to believe that this is going to change. The only change you can control is who you work for. You want a reasonable pay and career progression? Then go to a company that can provide it.
Sincerely,
He's the Donald Trump of reps, no filters. All the others came across as politicians, affraid to be non pc.
#3706
But did you see the MAG ALPA email that basically distanced itself from the LEC85 letter? Basically disagreed with the message.
#3708
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: DFW CRJ CA
Posts: 340
About the LEC Letter:
1. The letter was written by the Captain rep, and only the Captain rep. The FO rep and myself (Sec/Tres) were not consulted on the letter or even knew about it before it went out. That's a problem. Our names have been attached to something that's causing huge problems across multiple spectrum's and we had zero say in it.
2. Someone asked who's ****ed with it: The MEC, The rest of the LEC represented in the letter, the Company, Many of our Pilots, The MEC's of some of the airlines listed in the letter.
3. Why is it such a problem: For one he basically calls other ALPA carriers second class airlines. Two, the way he phrased things count get us sued.
4. From personal experience. Our pilots are not going to magically "get it" because we send out a hotline or tell them to do something. I still see it every month with regards to bidding and schedules. So thinking this piece is some magic wake-up that is going to have any effect other then to cause A LOT of problems is shortsighted.
1. The letter was written by the Captain rep, and only the Captain rep. The FO rep and myself (Sec/Tres) were not consulted on the letter or even knew about it before it went out. That's a problem. Our names have been attached to something that's causing huge problems across multiple spectrum's and we had zero say in it.
2. Someone asked who's ****ed with it: The MEC, The rest of the LEC represented in the letter, the Company, Many of our Pilots, The MEC's of some of the airlines listed in the letter.
3. Why is it such a problem: For one he basically calls other ALPA carriers second class airlines. Two, the way he phrased things count get us sued.
4. From personal experience. Our pilots are not going to magically "get it" because we send out a hotline or tell them to do something. I still see it every month with regards to bidding and schedules. So thinking this piece is some magic wake-up that is going to have any effect other then to cause A LOT of problems is shortsighted.
Last edited by MagPBS; 04-23-2017 at 07:43 AM.
#3709
About the LEC Letter:
1. The letter was written by the Captain rep, and only the Captain rep. The FO rep and myself (Sec/Tres) were not consulted on the letter or even knew about it before it went out. That's a problem. Our names have been attached to something that's causing huge problems across multiple spectrum's and we had zero say in it.
2. Someone asked who's ****ed with it: The MEC, The rest of the LEC represented in the letter, the Company, Many of our Pilots, The MEC's of some of the airlines listed in the letter.
3. Why is it such a problem: For one he basically calls other ALPA carriers second class airlines. Two, the way he phrased things count get us sued.
4. From personal experience. Our pilots are not going to magically "get it" because we send out a hotline or tell them to do something. I still see it every month with regards to bidding and schedules. So thinking this piece is some magic wake-up that is going to have any effect other then to cause A LOT of problems is shortsighted.
1. The letter was written by the Captain rep, and only the Captain rep. The FO rep and myself (Sec/Tres) were not consulted on the letter or even knew about it before it went out. That's a problem. Our names have been attached to something that's causing huge problems across multiple spectrum's and we had zero say in it.
2. Someone asked who's ****ed with it: The MEC, The rest of the LEC represented in the letter, the Company, Many of our Pilots, The MEC's of some of the airlines listed in the letter.
3. Why is it such a problem: For one he basically calls other ALPA carriers second class airlines. Two, the way he phrased things count get us sued.
4. From personal experience. Our pilots are not going to magically "get it" because we send out a hotline or tell them to do something. I still see it every month with regards to bidding and schedules. So thinking this piece is some magic wake-up that is going to have any effect other then to cause A LOT of problems is shortsighted.
Dogging the pilots as you have in your fourth point will do nothing more than question your loyalties. But, there seems to be far bigger problems that many, if not all in our union other than the author of the letter, don't seem to 'get' themselves. The biggest being their failure to recognize a/o acknowledge the depth and seriousness of the disgust that the pilot group has over their situation. Things like ineffective bidding are a very minor concern in comparison. The pay, work rules and other QOL issues being disregarded by management for YEARS makes things like not getting the schedule you wanted or, the fact that someone got their feelings by this letter hurt pale in comparison.
While we may agree that it was wrong for it to be sent in the manner it was, I would challenge the rest of you to disprove its content. The most important point of all being that (even with Mesa being in the current predicament that it is, the picketing, the billboards, mediation that is non-binding by the way, and any other organized union efforts) his assertion that there is no indication that anything is going to change has shown to be spot-on. I will dare you and anyone else in the MEC to oppose that point. He is, no doubt, acting out of frustration. But, he has also shown a willingness to take it a notch higher and enter into fight mode with the company. Are the rest of you willing to do that?
#3710
I have a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for you, X. I think everybody here does. And it is a problem that this was sent out with your name but not your approval or knowledge.
That being said, Trim's post is spot-on. We're angry. We've been angry. And we have very little confidence anything will be accomplished in 2017.
I know you and our other representatives have been working hard, but there is a legitimate frustration built around the unbelievably atrocious TA promoted in 2015, an unwillingness to play "hardball," and the MEC's failure to apply for mediation sometime prior to the 6-year mark. How many airlines have we seen in the last three years reach their amendable date, quibble a few months, maybe throw "strike vote" around, and get a contract? Offhand we've got...
1.) American
2.) United
3.) Delta
4.) FedEx
5.) UPS
6.) Hawaiian
7.) Southwest
8.) Kalitta
9.) Sun Country
10.) Compass
11.) Endeavor
12.) ExpressJet
13.) PSA
14.) SkyWest
15.) CommutAir
16.) Envoy
17.) Piedmont
18.) GoJet
19.) Great Lakes
20.) Horizon
21.) Republic
22.) TSA
We've been dead in the water since 2010. We didn't bother filing for mediation until 2017. We wasted countless hours and dollars on a pointless roadshow for a TA with work rules worse than we have now (but thanks for the quesadillas, I guess). By the way, we're all English proficient (or most of us anyway), so let's just skip roadshows and let the pilots simply read the document.
I was in close physical proximity to AH after the failed TA and listened to him discuss who they should bring in as new negotiators on the phone. The only logical part of the conversation was an interest in bringing JB in for her legal background. Other than that he expressed an unwillingness to work with a number of people because "they'd come in with a flamethrower." We could use a flamethrower. We could use an artillery strike. We could use a strike vote, and we could use an earnest discussion into the viability of a status quo strike. We could use union leaders who aren't afraid of rocking the boat and union leaders who don't inexplicably end up in cushy management or recruiting positions. Lastly, we could use an ad campaign informing potential pilots not to come here (Pilots | AtlasFacts.org).
As far as lawsuit concerns, who's going to sue us and on what grounds? Another ALPA MEC for pointing out their superior contract? A second class airline for insinuating it's a second class airline?
I'm sorry that letter went out with your name on it, and I'm sorry a lot of our pilot group doesn't read many union emails, but this is the first time anyone in the union has tried to light a fire under some butts and show any real disdain for the status quo. Finally. We need to be angry. Publicly.
EL for MEC Chairman.
That being said, Trim's post is spot-on. We're angry. We've been angry. And we have very little confidence anything will be accomplished in 2017.
I know you and our other representatives have been working hard, but there is a legitimate frustration built around the unbelievably atrocious TA promoted in 2015, an unwillingness to play "hardball," and the MEC's failure to apply for mediation sometime prior to the 6-year mark. How many airlines have we seen in the last three years reach their amendable date, quibble a few months, maybe throw "strike vote" around, and get a contract? Offhand we've got...
1.) American
2.) United
3.) Delta
4.) FedEx
5.) UPS
6.) Hawaiian
7.) Southwest
8.) Kalitta
9.) Sun Country
10.) Compass
11.) Endeavor
12.) ExpressJet
13.) PSA
14.) SkyWest
15.) CommutAir
16.) Envoy
17.) Piedmont
18.) GoJet
19.) Great Lakes
20.) Horizon
21.) Republic
22.) TSA
We've been dead in the water since 2010. We didn't bother filing for mediation until 2017. We wasted countless hours and dollars on a pointless roadshow for a TA with work rules worse than we have now (but thanks for the quesadillas, I guess). By the way, we're all English proficient (or most of us anyway), so let's just skip roadshows and let the pilots simply read the document.
I was in close physical proximity to AH after the failed TA and listened to him discuss who they should bring in as new negotiators on the phone. The only logical part of the conversation was an interest in bringing JB in for her legal background. Other than that he expressed an unwillingness to work with a number of people because "they'd come in with a flamethrower." We could use a flamethrower. We could use an artillery strike. We could use a strike vote, and we could use an earnest discussion into the viability of a status quo strike. We could use union leaders who aren't afraid of rocking the boat and union leaders who don't inexplicably end up in cushy management or recruiting positions. Lastly, we could use an ad campaign informing potential pilots not to come here (Pilots | AtlasFacts.org).
As far as lawsuit concerns, who's going to sue us and on what grounds? Another ALPA MEC for pointing out their superior contract? A second class airline for insinuating it's a second class airline?
I'm sorry that letter went out with your name on it, and I'm sorry a lot of our pilot group doesn't read many union emails, but this is the first time anyone in the union has tried to light a fire under some butts and show any real disdain for the status quo. Finally. We need to be angry. Publicly.
EL for MEC Chairman.
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