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Old 03-31-2017, 08:10 PM
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Default Q3 and Hired?

I'm curious if folks had stories of multiple Q3's/UPT hooks on their record and still getting hired by the majors.

I've got two each (Q3 & UPT) on my record and I've heard the online apps will weed you out, is this true?
I wish I could say that I didn't deserve them, but what can I say...I made a couple mistakes. Fortunately, no people or airplanes were hurt.
Should I go ahead and call 1-800-TRUCKMASTERS now?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:33 AM
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Technically you only have two busts on your record, don't let the orthodoxy of one airline coerce you into representing your category student rides as FAA/FORM8/NATOPS busts to all of them.

I know a buddy of mine who got literally admonished over the issue of not disclosing a UPT category ride as an eval bust, during a DL interview process. He was given the TBNT, and told to re-interview in a year. Personally I would have declined, as I think the manner in which you speak to me matters, but I'm not hot to trot about the airlines so that's immaterial. He literally does nothing different for a year, gets hired the second time around. fwiw.

So you got two busts. Big whoop, nothing you can do about them, so don't worry about it. But to answer your question, yes I know folks with more than one checkride bust flying for the US3+SW.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:07 AM
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There are people who have been FEB'd and grounded, Class-A mishaps, crashed airplanes, Article 15s, etc, all hired and flying at the majors. A couple busts in and of itself isn't going to be a show stopper.

Getting the call to interview is all about the totality of what is on your application. The airlines know that pilots have bad marks occasionally on their records, and they also know that a couple mistakes don't make you a bad pilot or a bad person.

My bet is that most of the folks with the black marks above also had other strong things on their resume that offset the bad stuff.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Technically you only have two busts on your record, don't let the orthodoxy of one airline coerce you into representing your category student rides as FAA/FORM8/NATOPS busts to all of them.

I know a buddy of mine who got literally admonished over the issue of not disclosing a UPT category ride as an eval bust, during a DL interview process. He was given the TBNT, and told to re-interview in a year. Personally I would have declined, as I think the manner in which you speak to me matters, but I'm not hot to trot about the airlines so that's immaterial. He literally does nothing different for a year, gets hired the second time around. fwiw.

So you got two busts. Big whoop, nothing you can do about them, so don't worry about it. But to answer your question, yes I know folks with more than one checkride bust flying for the US3+SW.

DAL is its own special brand of arrogant, don't use them as a standard.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:38 PM
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Are you a C-17 pilot? My understanding is hey hand out Q3's like candy, so 2 Q3's would be expected probably. Fighters? More rare, but still not a show stopper.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:03 PM
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Thanks for the perspective. I gotta admit, those things can really make you miserable if you let them hang over your head.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Technically you only have two busts on your record, don't let the orthodoxy of one airline coerce you into representing your category student rides as FAA/FORM8/NATOPS busts to all of them.

I know a buddy of mine who got literally admonished over the issue of not disclosing a UPT category ride as an eval bust, during a DL interview process. He was given the TBNT, and told to re-interview in a year. Personally I would have declined, as I think the manner in which you speak to me matters, but I'm not hot to trot about the airlines so that's immaterial. He literally does nothing different for a year, gets hired the second time around. fwiw.

So you got two busts. Big whoop, nothing you can do about them, so don't worry about it. But to answer your question, yes I know folks with more than one checkride bust flying for the US3+SW.
Pretty sure it specifically says to list UPT busts on the application......
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by duece12345 View Post
Pretty sure it specifically says to list UPT busts on the application......
Do they make people that came up through a 141 list every phase check bust they had? May not have been for a ticket or rating, but a fail is a fail.

I ask that rhetorically, I know several guy there that have never busted a "checkride" but had multiple phase check failures.
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumble View Post
Do they make people that came up through a 141 list every phase check bust they had? May not have been for a ticket or rating, but a fail is a fail.

I ask that rhetorically, I know several guy there that have never busted a "checkride" but had multiple phase check failures.
*** are you talking about? Both the original poster and the hindsight buddy are mil. What does that have to do with 141 stage checks?

To the OP, I know multiple guys that fly at majors That have Q3s.
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by duece12345 View Post
*** are you talking about? Both the original poster and the hindsight buddy are mil. What does that have to do with 141 stage checks?
He's talking about how airlines, NOT ALL BUT SOME, simply want a candidate to list ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. For the reasons listed below, as an example;

Lately our hiring team has seen an increased amount of discrepancies in the interview process with regard to training failures. Let's start by saying that minor hiccups in training are not deal breakers when it comes to getting a job with Uber Airline. Some checkrides have such a high failure rate that getting a bust is almost a rite of passage...can you say CFI? Training failures happen, but what we are looking for, from you, is to hear about how you handled it and what you learned from the failure.
Recently, when asked about why some training failures were not included on their applications, several candidates told us that they paid for consulting services, and named specific companies and said that they were advised by the consultants that it was not necessary to include their specific failures. Other candidates stated that their instructors, at the airline where the failure occurred, told them it was not a big deal and would not be considered a failure. We want to be sure to clear up this bad gouge. Our application specifically asks you to list ANY training failures. In fact, here are the actual questions:
"Have you ever been the subject of an evaluation board or been removed from flight status, downgraded, or failed ANY portion of flight training either civilian or military?”
“Have you every failed ANY check rides (military or civilian) including phase checks, proficiency checks, FAA check rides, or line checks?”
That means ANY/ALL failures. If you had to get extra sim time, had a UPT failure, had to retake an oral, failed a line check, etc. it will likely show up on your PRIA report and if you didn't record it on your application it could appear that you deliberately omitted information from your application...which is not something that you nor we want to have come up during the hiring process. We want you to list all training failures. It's as simple as that...no grey area...just list them all.

Originally Posted by duece12345 View Post
the OP, I know multiple guys that fly at majors That have Q3s.
EXACTLY.

It's actually pretty amazing what one can get hired with, in this hypercompetitive environment.
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