young hs grad here looking for some guidence
06-10-2017, 08:25 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
young hs grad here looking for some guidence
Hello, 
As a young man i have experienced how valuable wisdom from people who i hold in very high regards plays out regardless of my own intuition. It is because of this i am reaching out to you folk, who have had to make the same very decisions i am confronted by in hopes i can learn from an experience .
Thank you for attention up to this point . I appreciate your time so i will be brief.
I am a high school grad as of 6/8/17 and have a few options towards my entrance into a pilot slot in military.
To my understanding an academy is the most likely way to get that pilot slot , so i would be applying to them in all scenarios.
1) Usaf enlisted. full time
-I could enter as an aircraft mec
-could use gi to pay for bachelors in aviation
-most fluid of my options allowing for aviation tec or flight slot
-get payed
- fastest way to retirement
-longest path to academy admission,pilot slot, or an officer 6-7 yr
-cannot ship off to bmt for another 6 month
2) usaf reservist 4 days mon
-could use gi for select reserve to help pay for bachelors in aviation
-college ROTC towards pilot slot.
-fastest way to be commissioned as o
-better job
-years of service still count
-more competitive academy admission
-does not count towards military retirement
-possible debt
-less benefits than nat guard
-cannot ship off to bmt for another 6 month
3) army nat guard reservist 4 days a month
-full ride in bachelors thats not aviation related
-10k cash from scholarship (getting paid to go to school)
-college ROTC towards pilot slot.
-more competitive academy admission
-years of service still count
-complicated transfer to usaf after ots
-no guarantee of transfer if i got an academy appointment
-crappy job: plumber, road paver, or carpenter
-more likely chance of deployment(9 month tour) than usaf res.
Based on that, what do you gentlemen believe the best course of action is?
is there a path i am missing or something i may not be considering?
Again, thanks for your time.Your opinion or past experience is important to me.
very respectfully,
Kipper
As a young man i have experienced how valuable wisdom from people who i hold in very high regards plays out regardless of my own intuition. It is because of this i am reaching out to you folk, who have had to make the same very decisions i am confronted by in hopes i can learn from an experience .
Thank you for attention up to this point . I appreciate your time so i will be brief.
I am a high school grad as of 6/8/17 and have a few options towards my entrance into a pilot slot in military.
To my understanding an academy is the most likely way to get that pilot slot , so i would be applying to them in all scenarios.
1) Usaf enlisted. full time
-I could enter as an aircraft mec
-could use gi to pay for bachelors in aviation
-most fluid of my options allowing for aviation tec or flight slot
-get payed
- fastest way to retirement
-longest path to academy admission,pilot slot, or an officer 6-7 yr
-cannot ship off to bmt for another 6 month
2) usaf reservist 4 days mon
-could use gi for select reserve to help pay for bachelors in aviation
-college ROTC towards pilot slot.
-fastest way to be commissioned as o
-better job
-years of service still count
-more competitive academy admission
-does not count towards military retirement
-possible debt
-less benefits than nat guard
-cannot ship off to bmt for another 6 month
3) army nat guard reservist 4 days a month
-full ride in bachelors thats not aviation related
-10k cash from scholarship (getting paid to go to school)
-college ROTC towards pilot slot.
-more competitive academy admission
-years of service still count
-complicated transfer to usaf after ots
-no guarantee of transfer if i got an academy appointment
-crappy job: plumber, road paver, or carpenter
-more likely chance of deployment(9 month tour) than usaf res.
Based on that, what do you gentlemen believe the best course of action is?
is there a path i am missing or something i may not be considering?
Again, thanks for your time.Your opinion or past experience is important to me.
very respectfully,
Kipper
06-11-2017, 01:40 AM
#2
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
What do you want to fly? If you want to fly helos, join the army warrant officer corps straighten off the street. My stick buddy in army flight school was 18 and right off the street. That process is not without its wickets, but can be done. If you want to go to an academy, that isn't a bad way to go. Even though it was miserable, I would do it again. But it isn't always the best for flying. My ideal career path would have been to start getting some ratings in high school, enlist in the guard in a fighter unit and go to college simultaneously, try to flight instruct on the side and build some hours,, finish my degree at some point, get picked up by a regional, get a UPT slot from a fighter unit, then get a seniority number at a major, then go on mil leave for a while and do the airline/fighter thing. All that can be done by age 30. Or another cool path would be to join the army at 18 or 19, fly apaches for 8 years while working on a degree and fixed wing time on the side, get out at 26/27 years old, join a guard fighter unit, then do the airline thing after that.
06-11-2017, 04:25 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
The only reason to go to a service academy in this day and age is if you want an academy experience.
The academies pick up a handful of enlisted every year. You will likely have to spend several years applying on a very low percentage bet.
The fastest way to getting a commission and flying is to get a degree. If you have college money or a way to get a degree without significant debt...get the degree and apply for OCS.
If you need to enlist to get money- that's fine too. As soon as you get to your first duty station start taking college classes rather than chasing girls and boozing. You can likely have a degree or most of a degree completed by the end of your first enlistment - then apply for OCS.
Keep in mind the service required for mil flight training is typically 8-10 years. If you enlist and the go to an academy you will have 3-4 years enlisted time followed by the academy and then 8-10 years commitment. Total time until "free" is about 17 years and only 13 count toward "pension". If you get the degree on your own you could do it in about 5-6 years followed by 8-10 commitment after training. Total time is 15 years all count toward the tradition or new blended retirement.
If you want to be an airline pilot, in either of these cases your wouldn't be available to the airlines until about 2030 at the earliest.
The academies pick up a handful of enlisted every year. You will likely have to spend several years applying on a very low percentage bet.
The fastest way to getting a commission and flying is to get a degree. If you have college money or a way to get a degree without significant debt...get the degree and apply for OCS.
If you need to enlist to get money- that's fine too. As soon as you get to your first duty station start taking college classes rather than chasing girls and boozing. You can likely have a degree or most of a degree completed by the end of your first enlistment - then apply for OCS.
Keep in mind the service required for mil flight training is typically 8-10 years. If you enlist and the go to an academy you will have 3-4 years enlisted time followed by the academy and then 8-10 years commitment. Total time until "free" is about 17 years and only 13 count toward "pension". If you get the degree on your own you could do it in about 5-6 years followed by 8-10 commitment after training. Total time is 15 years all count toward the tradition or new blended retirement.
If you want to be an airline pilot, in either of these cases your wouldn't be available to the airlines until about 2030 at the earliest.
06-11-2017, 07:14 AM
#4
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by FlewNavy
The only reason to go to a service academy in this day and age is if you want an academy experience.
The academies pick up a handful of enlisted every year. You will likely have to spend several years applying on a very low percentage bet.
The fastest way to getting a commission and flying is to get a degree. If you have college money or a way to get a degree without significant debt...get the degree and apply for OCS.
If you need to enlist to get money- that's fine too. As soon as you get to your first duty station start taking college classes rather than chasing girls and boozing. You can likely have a degree or most of a degree completed by the end of your first enlistment - then apply for OCS.
Keep in mind the service required for mil flight training is typically 8-10 years. If you enlist and the go to an academy you will have 3-4 years enlisted time followed by the academy and then 8-10 years commitment. Total time until "free" is about 17 years and only 13 count toward "pension". If you get the degree on your own you could do it in about 5-6 years followed by 8-10 commitment after training. Total time is 15 years all count toward the tradition or new blended retirement.
If you want to be an airline pilot, in either of these cases your wouldn't be available to the airlines until about 2030 at the earliest.
The academies pick up a handful of enlisted every year. You will likely have to spend several years applying on a very low percentage bet.
The fastest way to getting a commission and flying is to get a degree. If you have college money or a way to get a degree without significant debt...get the degree and apply for OCS.
If you need to enlist to get money- that's fine too. As soon as you get to your first duty station start taking college classes rather than chasing girls and boozing. You can likely have a degree or most of a degree completed by the end of your first enlistment - then apply for OCS.
Keep in mind the service required for mil flight training is typically 8-10 years. If you enlist and the go to an academy you will have 3-4 years enlisted time followed by the academy and then 8-10 years commitment. Total time until "free" is about 17 years and only 13 count toward "pension". If you get the degree on your own you could do it in about 5-6 years followed by 8-10 commitment after training. Total time is 15 years all count toward the tradition or new blended retirement.
If you want to be an airline pilot, in either of these cases your wouldn't be available to the airlines until about 2030 at the earliest.
Thats was very well said flew, In each case the road is long. With enlistment i am giving up that direct shot for a commision and pilot slot. Then if i got the degree on my own i would be giving up those 4 years towards my retirement.However like you said i am also again losing these 4 years if i go to the academy from enlistment. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
06-11-2017, 07:20 AM
#5
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
What do you want to fly? If you want to fly helos, join the army warrant officer corps straighten off the street. My stick buddy in army flight school was 18 and right off the street. That process is not without its wickets, but can be done. If you want to go to an academy, that isn't a bad way to go. Even though it was miserable, I would do it again. But it isn't always the best for flying. My ideal career path would have been to start getting some ratings in high school, enlist in the guard in a fighter unit and go to college simultaneously, try to flight instruct on the side and build some hours,, finish my degree at some point, get picked up by a regional, get a UPT slot from a fighter unit, then get a seniority number at a major, then go on mil leave for a while and do the airline/fighter thing. All that can be done by age 30. Or another cool path would be to join the army at 18 or 19, fly apaches for 8 years while working on a degree and fixed wing time on the side, get out at 26/27 years old, join a guard fighter unit, then do the airline thing after that.
Wow what a path. Out of all the paths yours would be the most direct and i could be big time by 30. very cool, I did not look into the ang too much yet but i hear their pilots fly ALOT.
06-11-2017, 09:00 AM
#6
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Kipperskipper
Wow what a path. Out of all the paths yours would be the most direct and i could be big time by 30. very cool, I did not look into the ang too much yet but i hear their pilots fly ALOT.
Another thing to consider. I know a guy who went to Purdue, got his ratings/time in college, went to Mesa at age 22, upgraded in 18 months, had a little volunteer work, and got hired at delta at age 24. If I was that lucky, I would do that, then go find a guard unit and become a guard fighter pilot and keep my delta seniority. That would be better than the enlisted guard first route. Getting a legacy seniority number before going guard is optimal, but requires a lot of luck in both endeavors.
What do you want to fly?
06-11-2017, 03:36 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Legacy FO, T-38 IP
Posts: 56
ANG or AF Reserve
I am a T-38 instructor. We have off the street AF Reserve and Air National Guard student pilots all the time. Many of these guys/gals are college grads with a little bit of civilian pilot training. Many of them applied to numerous ANG/Reserve units and eventually got hired. So, OTS, pilot training, follow-on training, full-time orders at their squadron for 2 to 3 years for seasoning and boo-yah, you are airline hireable. STAY AWAY FROM THE ACTIVE DUTY. The post-SUPT active-duty service commitment is 10 years. Don't do it.
06-11-2017, 06:11 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Merle Dixon
I am a T-38 instructor. We have off the street AF Reserve and Air National Guard student pilots all the time. Many of these guys/gals are college grads with a little bit of civilian pilot training. Many of them applied to numerous ANG/Reserve units and eventually got hired. So, OTS, pilot training, follow-on training, full-time orders at their squadron for 2 to 3 years for seasoning and boo-yah, you are airline hireable. STAY AWAY FROM THE ACTIVE DUTY. The post-SUPT active-duty service commitment is 10 years. Don't do it.
06-11-2017, 06:49 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,191
You probably need 1,500 fighters, and 2,000 hrs heavy mil time, to be competitive. With a deployment you might get 400-500 hrs fighter a year? The other years you'll get 100-150? 500-800 hrs every three years? 300 hrs from UPT, RTU, and local qual/MR? Maybe 8-10 yrs from OTS to a competitive fighter resume?
What's the heavy annual flight hours as a reservist? 250-400? Still 8-10 years?
Here's DL's median new hire data for almost two years of hiring -
Civ. 7656 TT. 4126 PIC
MIL. 3119 2249
C/M. 4938. 2955
Havn't seen many posts on 'who's been hired' with less than 1500 pointy hrs and 2000 hrs heavy.
What's the heavy annual flight hours as a reservist? 250-400? Still 8-10 years?
Here's DL's median new hire data for almost two years of hiring -
Civ. 7656 TT. 4126 PIC
MIL. 3119 2249
C/M. 4938. 2955
Havn't seen many posts on 'who's been hired' with less than 1500 pointy hrs and 2000 hrs heavy.
06-11-2017, 08:04 PM
#10
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,544
Find your closest AIR National Guard squadron and enlist as a crew chief. Kick butt at your job and get your degree while serving out your enlistment. They'll pay for your schooling and you'll make extra cash between your weekend pay check and the GI BILL/other benefits. Finish college pretty much debt free. About a year out from graduating apply for pilots spots every where, while trying to get a seniority number at a regional. Get hired...prosper!
If you find out later you can't pass the medical or don't get hired, you'll only have a few years after college to finish your commitment. If that's the case, you'll have gotten to see a lot of cool places and made friends for life...on top of serving your country.
I would only go to the AD as a last resort. Also, I would avoid the AF Reserve and go to the Air Guard. We generally have more/better benefits plus there are some other protections wrt deployments.
If you find out later you can't pass the medical or don't get hired, you'll only have a few years after college to finish your commitment. If that's the case, you'll have gotten to see a lot of cool places and made friends for life...on top of serving your country.
I would only go to the AD as a last resort. Also, I would avoid the AF Reserve and go to the Air Guard. We generally have more/better benefits plus there are some other protections wrt deployments.
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