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Old 09-06-2017, 10:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sliceback View Post
Bingo. How many separating/retired military guys have posted "I learned..." from their regional time? You should learn from each new job.
I learned that I apparently suck at interviewing since I've now not been hired at two majors.

People say that prior-military is guaranteed job at a major, but...well, no. I know a few others who haven't gotten hired, too. Maybe it's just a crapshoot on that particular day, I don't know, but it isn't like we are just walking on to the big leagues with no effort involved.

I will say, though, that I really have learned a lot so far at my regional.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JTwift View Post
I learned that I apparently suck at interviewing since I've now not been hired at two majors.

People say that prior-military is guaranteed job at a major, but...well, no. I know a few others who haven't gotten hired, too. Maybe it's just a crapshoot on that particular day, I don't know, but it isn't like we are just walking on to the big leagues with no effort involved.

I will say, though, that I really have learned a lot so far at my regional.
I agree, as an ex AF pilot I am still on the outside looking in. I suspect it is because my current job is corporate, and not 121. It is really hard to give up a very good corporate gig in my hometown on the chance that a regional 121 job would get me in the door. If I was leaving AD today I would take a 121 job vs corporate to stay current if the majors had not called yet. However, when I got out 5 years ago essentially none of the majors were hiring and the regionals paid McDonald's wages, so went corporate.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Count View Post
Hello aviators and thanks in advance again for the advice...

I'm an Air Force pilot with an ATP looking at career options now. I was planning on retiring at ~21yrs (2020) out of an inactive flying job, but then saw (thanks to your all's replies to my first post) how important recency plays into the equation at the majors.

So, the AF has offered guys like me a second bonus at $35k a year, which essentially would commit me out to 2022 (2 years past my current commitment). It's tempting because the intent is to get pilots into cockpits meaning that I'll likely end up in a cockpit after my current non-flying tour. So, I have two plans...

Plan A: Retire from my non-flying job in 2020, roll the bones on a major and likely(??) end up at a regional for X months before being a candidate for a major.

Plan B: Take the bonus, do a flying assignment and retire with recency in 2022 at which point I'll be more marketable for the majors.

Thoughts?
Regionals are giving bonuses to ATP qualified pilots, too. Check the ads that pop up on this site.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JTwift View Post
I learned that I apparently suck at interviewing since I've now not been hired at two majors.

People say that prior-military is guaranteed job at a major, but...well, no. I know a few others who haven't gotten hired, too. Maybe it's just a crapshoot on that particular day, I don't know, but it isn't like we are just walking on to the big leagues with no effort involved.

I will say, though, that I really have learned a lot so far at my regional.
Nothing is a guaranteed. Better odds? Sure. Guaranteed? Nope. Sorry to hear about your interview travails.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JTwift View Post
I learned that I apparently suck at interviewing since I've now not been hired at two majors.

People say that prior-military is guaranteed job at a major, but...well, no. I know a few others who haven't gotten hired, too. Maybe it's just a crapshoot on that particular day, I don't know, but it isn't like we are just walking on to the big leagues with no effort involved.

I will say, though, that I really have learned a lot so far at my regional.
I certainly hope you've done some interview prep since then. Probably need some one-on-one prep given the track record.

The group prep seminars are good at helping you understand the process and pitfalls and making tactical preparations, but actually executing on that is up to you, you might benefit from coaching on your delivery.

Going in cold, you could very easily step on a land mine.

Also need to consider the composition interview team, may be non-mil pilots and the HR ladies likely have a very different outlook on life than a military professional. Too many unpolished military edges and they might think you're a baby-killer type.

Good news...they're gonna need you within a couple years regardless. I thing the only think that would be a permanent blackball would be lying or significant background issues.
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:18 PM   #16
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I certainly hope you've done some interview prep since then. Probably need some one-on-one prep given the track record.

The group prep seminars are good at helping you understand the process and pitfalls and making tactical preparations, but actually executing on that is up to you, you might benefit from coaching on your delivery.

Going in cold, you could very easily step on a land mine.

Also need to consider the composition interview team, may be non-mil pilots and the HR ladies likely have a very different outlook on life than a military professional. Too many unpolished military edges and they might think you're a baby-killer type.

Good news...they're gonna need you within a couple years regardless. I thing the only think that would be a permanent blackball would be lying or significant background issues.
Did the prep. Maybe my stories are just too boring, or my military career was too average? Maybe I really bombed the JKT, when I thought I did pretty good? Who knows.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:22 PM   #17
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Count,

Only you can answer this question....after you sift through everyone's biased point of view. Some things to think about:
1) What really matters to you? is it money, flying, quality of life, gardening in the back yard, leading people, achievement, surfing, skiing, family time...this list goes on, but how you answer this question determines a great deal. A lot of my Mil buddies that got out as soon as possible in order to get an airline job now feel "less than fulfilled" and are pursuing things in their off time like PhD, starting business, teaching, etc. Others are completely enjoying the time off and pursuit of personal hobbies that the airline life allows. Others that stayed in for 25-30 yrs are completely satisfied with what they achieved in the military and are happy to now just fly as little as possible and enjoy all the things their life in the military did not allow (not being on the road). Others that got out for "quality of life" have decided that they now need to seek max money so they can afford that turbo speedster to add spice to their life and are commuting to sit reserve in order to get Captain pay...(not a great lifestyle unless the money makes it worth while somehow)
2) Even without military recency you can still get hired by a major within a year of separation...sooner if you plan correctly. One buddy got out after flying fighters and did not fly for 8 years then started instructing in a C-172 followed by a year with a regional and is now at Delta...and he loved his time with the regional and was very happy for all of the 121 experience it allowed him to gain. (Delta will look for 100 hours in the past 12 months in anything (Cessna 172 is fine), United will look for complex time within the last year or so. Not sure what SouthWest, American, FedEx, UPS look for.
3) Where do you want to live? Is that a domicile for one of the airlines you are interested in? Are you willing to move? Getting paid to sit reserve at home in your underwear versus commuting the day prior to sit reserve in a hotel or crash pad could be a factor on how motivated you are to leave the military right away.
- It looks like the airline hiring will remain strong for the next several years, you may choose to stay in the military if you enjoy it and go to the airlines once the mil lifestyle, enjoyment, sense of achievement etc... starts to lose its attraction. But again this really depends on what makes you tick...which is a question that only you can answer. On the other hand, the sooner you get hired the more money you will make in the long run and the longer you will have to build seniority quality of life...if those are things that matter most to you.
- There is no "correct" answer....just your answer. It is great to have 1st world problems like this to deal with, best of luck with your choice!
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:49 PM   #18
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Count,

Only you can answer this question....after you sift through everyone's biased point of view. Some things to think about:
1) What really matters to you? is it money, flying, quality of life, gardening in the back yard, leading people, achievement, surfing, skiing, family time...this list goes on, but how you answer this question determines a great deal. A lot of my Mil buddies that got out as soon as possible in order to get an airline job now feel "less than fulfilled" and are pursuing things in their off time like PhD, starting business, teaching, etc. Others are completely enjoying the time off and pursuit of personal hobbies that the airline life allows. Others that stayed in for 25-30 yrs are completely satisfied with what they achieved in the military and are happy to now just fly as little as possible and enjoy all the things their life in the military did not allow (not being on the road). Others that got out for "quality of life" have decided that they now need to seek max money so they can afford that turbo speedster to add spice to their life and are commuting to sit reserve in order to get Captain pay...(not a great lifestyle unless the money makes it worth while somehow)
2) Even without military recency you can still get hired by a major within a year of separation...sooner if you plan correctly. One buddy got out after flying fighters and did not fly for 8 years then started instructing in a C-172 followed by a year with a regional and is now at Delta...and he loved his time with the regional and was very happy for all of the 121 experience it allowed him to gain. (Delta will look for 100 hours in the past 12 months in anything (Cessna 172 is fine), United will look for complex time within the last year or so. Not sure what SouthWest, American, FedEx, UPS look for.
3) Where do you want to live? Is that a domicile for one of the airlines you are interested in? Are you willing to move? Getting paid to sit reserve at home in your underwear versus commuting the day prior to sit reserve in a hotel or crash pad could be a factor on how motivated you are to leave the military right away.
- It looks like the airline hiring will remain strong for the next several years, you may choose to stay in the military if you enjoy it and go to the airlines once the mil lifestyle, enjoyment, sense of achievement etc... starts to lose its attraction. But again this really depends on what makes you tick...which is a question that only you can answer. On the other hand, the sooner you get hired the more money you will make in the long run and the longer you will have to build seniority quality of life...if those are things that matter most to you.
- There is no "correct" answer....just your answer. It is great to have 1st world problems like this to deal with, best of luck with your choice!
I'll tell you what....after a month of sitting in a crash pad, and the days away from home for training and trips....I'm seriously reconsidering my decision to pursue the airlines.

Yeah, I know it "gets better", but man...

Of course, I don't know what else I'm going to do instead. Car sales, maybe?
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:10 AM   #19
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I'll tell you what....after a month of sitting in a crash pad, and the days away from home for training and trips....I'm seriously reconsidering my decision to pursue the airlines.

Yeah, I know it "gets better", but man...
Personally, I wouldn't make any sweeping decisions about if the airline life is for you based on 6 months at a regional. Just recall that your time in UPT and AETC weren't a good predictor of what life was going to be like as a Lieutenant in an operational USAF unit, either.

That being said, there are a lot of military dudes who are a bit shell-shocked by the change in lifestyle in the beginning, even for those who go directly to a "career" airline right off the bat. I was just talking to a close AF bud who is about a year into flying the MD-88 at Delta, and he said the first 6 months weren't great -- new lifestyle to figure out, new airplane to learn, new people to figure out how to fly with, etc -- but now that he was a little further down the line it was becoming clear why this was a great second career.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:29 AM   #20
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The first 6-12 months of anything worth doing is going to be sucky.
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