He got his that's all that matters! Why worry about those who got little to nothing? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't worry about capping out since the pay raises need to be renewed each year. Someone sitting somewhere will fail to perform and it will be gone before you know it. Oops we forgot to renew it, sorry guys/gals. If it isn't this October 1st it will likely be next October 1st.

If these are the 'Special Pay Rates' you are speaking about - they are not incentives to stay necessarily - no more than the military bonuses were. As you say - you'll still make more in the airlines if that is the type of flying/job that you want to do; but to those who are close to retirement or don't want to work in the airlines it is a nice 'thanks for not leaving' pay increase.

Pretty much. Full disclosure: I am a northern region dude staying for 20 barring extreme duress (i.e. unit closure, forced drone flying).



That said, a couple points in defense of AMO and the SSR here. I have been personally, first-hand told by EY that the SSR is programmed already for outlying years. This actually makes sense. Remember AMO is late to the SSR for pilots, non-LEO aviators at many other agencies have been getting it since January. Rarely in the federal gov't is such a standard reduced once set (USMC, curious if you are getting it).



Also, there are a couple of advantages to this raise many have not thought of. The SSR is a locality pay, not a bonus. So it counts toward your pension. With caps, that essentially means that a career line pilot will earn a director's pension. Only has to last for 3 years to achieve that. Also, the increase will be reflected in your TSP matching funds and agency automatic. This will make a BIG difference over time.


Are there issues with it? From a management standpoint, yes. High locality pay cities are getting basically zilch. And it eliminates any financial incentive to promote. Thus why AMO balked at first, but the outcry was huge.


I think everyone in AMO realizes the SSR will do nothing to solve the issues at play in this thread. But, I was looking pretty hard at trying for a major, and now I'm not. At least for 9 more years.

The SSR pay cap is now 166k. The other 10% for UAS is a retention incentive so it is not part of the cap that we are familiar with. There is another cap of around 200k for bonus monies. The 10% UAS is a bonus and will not be part of our high 3. Being that I can be a "New Panama" guy and only touch the Pred quarterly, I'll take it for a MCE only slot. Next year as a 13 step 8 I'll gladly take the 171K!

Cheers

It seems that we line guys just found out about this. Few weeks ago after one of our pilots was sent a detailed email about it with the pay tables attached. Come to find out - the Marshal’s (JUSTICE) pilots are already on that pay scale. I was talking to our ACP about it last week after this was brought out and he said our upper mgmt has been aware for at least a year. Of course he said that getting it would be a long road since it is a line item budget and must be written in and then all the way to Congressionally approved; but there is hope.

So let me get this part straight because I don’t know a lot about it...but you guys - if SSR (what does that stand for?) is the same thing I’m talking about which I seems to be, is just a locality/COLA adjustment? The email I was referencing earlier made it seem like a plain old PAY increase for purposes of manning shortages (I did NOT mean to sound like I thought it was a short term bonus like they used in the military), but rather an increase in base GS/Step pay and I wondered if then the locality pay would be on top of that. What has been said here makes me think that is not the case.

Good luck to us all.

SSR = specialty pay rate. Forget locality pay. There is no locality pay after this starts. It's base pay x 35%. Then take that total x 25% leap = what everyone will get. 10% UAS is that of base on top.
Pilots are all the same in the eyes of HQ. Get over it!
I'm not sure why some are crying they didn't get a raise. Everyone got something. Maybe you were a bit over paid at your local anyway.
What about the P3 community?

Stepping on the backs of your brothers and sisters to get yours. Good on you. You’re likely already management but if not you should consider promoting.

Shouldn't that be SPR then :D Ah....gov't acronyms!

Guess ours will use be the 35%ish then because we obviously don't get the LEAP pay; though we do get an additional pay that most equate to the old military 'flight pay' - and then a number of premium pays (OT Night differential, training, etc...)

The pay scale I saw though wasn't straight 35%; it varied a little. I think mine was 42% for instance.

I think this was the table shared with us via email from some outside source. I don't know what all the different pay scales represent, the one listed above being 0764 - but what is the difference between all others except possibly the locality (you see 0764 has locations DFW and OK). The other concern for us is that DOT (or FAA) is not listed in the agencies/subelement list. Does this mean that we are eligible for these SSRs? I did hear that we were funded differently than most (meaning these are Title 5 funded and we are a different 'Title'?)

We all know that nothing about OPM is easy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I can tell you that some locals in my FIFO have already entertained the idea of trying to switch over to JPATS for the new pay table and A LOT less work and responsibility.

Mr. BAJ135, as a 13, I sign for a P3. It's about time I got something.
Spare me your BS!



SSR= special salary rate.

Oh it’s all starting to make sense now. A person smart enough to transfer into a P3 branch as a GS13 when everyone else who had the job was a GS14. Then you want to claim people at other locals are over paid and you’re underpaid. If anyone is full of BS it’s certainly you. Own your own decisions or should I say mistakes. I could care less if you sign for a P3 or a C206, and neither does HQ, because you’re both paid the same now. Enjoy your raise while you have it.

This is an absolutely idiotic statement.

RC - did you happen to ever fly the CBP P-3s will a pilot with the initials MO that was also an IP at the schoolhouse?

It definitely does not need congressional approval. AMO timeline from request submittal to OPM approval was about 3 months. Implemented as of today.

USMC, your raises can be higher than 35% because you have way more room to the cap without LEAP. Look at the bottom of those tables to see all your brethren that are already getting it. Honestly surprised DOT isn’t.

Are those the ones that are already getting it?

I took it that those were the agencies to which this was available.

If it is a list of agencies already receiving then I think that just bolsters our case.

I would imagine I'm a trifle bit happier than you. You must be a real gem to fly with.

I believe those agencies are already all getting it. A quick scan of USAjobs shows much higher than past starting salaries for 1881s in DOD, etc. A friend at JPATS is getting it.

Nailed it...at least in your own mind.

I believe it to be for all qualified UAS pilots only.

Is the new money subject to the cap?

Is the new money included in the high 3?

The SSR is subject to a different cap than regular GS, which is SES V or GS-15 step 10, whichever is higher ( $ 160,286 for rest of U.S.) The cap under SSR is ES IV, which is $ $166,500 for 2019. It is your new base pay, and counts toward high 3 calculations.

That $166,500 would be the high for our organization for GS14/15 (table 0764 for my locality)

If anyone could provide current information on which aircraft are located at the new hire locations I would really appreciate it.

Aguadilla
Mcallen
Sierra Vista
San Angelo
Laredo

Thanks in advance

Diverb -

I was in San Angelo yesterday and saw that MQ-9 flying all over the place!
There e re a couple of the Citations on the ramp too. I noticed you didn't mention them. I had even thought that you guys had gotten rid of them (or were going to quite some time ago). I was surprised to see them at KSJT. In any case - just passing through? Where are the Citations based now?

Those citations are up on GSA. No longer operational. I flew the last one there a couple months ago. I will miss the "near jet experience".

Thanks Dustoff.
I knew a guy flying them out of San Diego back in ‘09, and talked to a crew in El Centro once when I was as really interested to get onboard.
Any replacements being talked about or has that part of the mission just been discontinued in favor of other assests?

As much as I'm hoping for the best, this SSR will not make any difference. It will likely make things worse. I'm happy we got it, but it wont make it better. Just means my family has more money to spend or go out to dinner without me.

Id rather we had some work rules. Seniority in scheduling/seniority in who goes TDY / more time off. No more emails on Friday telling me I'm going TDY on Sunday for 2 weeks.

I'm absolutely burned out of being a pilot with lots of quals, that gets jammed on the schedule. Nearly every AMO pilot I know loves the work, and doesn't mind a crappy day or week doing the mission. But we all need down time. That is where the system is broken What good is the extra money if I'm TDY two weeks, my mandatory days off are in a hotel in south Texas, and when I return to my unit, Im working a night shift.

I should do a survey. Airline pilot vs AMO pilot. How many days did you have dinner with your family last year?

Everyone knows banker hours. M-F 0800-1600. Those are the best hours if you have a family and desire to spend any time with them. Soccer practice, dinner, games on Saturday, etc.

250k a year working M-F 08-16 is the perfect job. That wont happen at AMO if you are a pilot. But seniority should mean something, but it doesn't at AMO. Every single GS-15 in AMO works M-F 0800-1600. Sure, they might stay late sometimes.

I am burned out of having no idea and no control at all over my schedule. ZERO. Its full throttle all year, every year. And then there is a hurricane or a border crisis, and then we just get plain stupid.

Most pilots over 15 years are already at the pay cap because we work nights, weekends and Sundays.

Now we will work crappy hours for free. Free for management. It wont cost them anything to have us work an extra day of overtime, nights or Sundays. It will make life easier for them. Less paperwork managing the branch budget. Now its 166 for everyone, and no premium pay and paperwork to deal with.

So two questions I now ponder. Can they continue to force us to work a 6th day, overtime, even though we are getting no additional compensation? Whats to stop a DAO from scheduling everyone for 1 day of overtime every week? It wont cost him a penny.

Also, who is going to apply for future leadership positions? Anyone with 10 years of service will be at the cap. So it looks likely the only people who will apply for GS14 and 15 will be non-aviators, very junior pilots looking to get a raise early, and aviators who dont like to fly or cant fly. The weak and sick.

I once told my DAO that a handful of senior GS-13 pilots with leadership roles like IP or standards should get 14 pay. Reward our aviation leaders and create incentive for junior pilots to get more quals. He was mad that I even made the comment. That moment made a tremendous impact.

My DAO flat out told me he deserves more money because he sits in an office all day, every day. He has more responsibility he said. Wow! its self perceived responsibility. OMG, somebody wont get paid or respond to all these emails from Eddie Young. Who cares about training new pilots, doing a Mx flight, or actually flying a plane full of passengers. I've been called in on days off to do a Mx flight, to carry some special VIP passenger, to deal with a mishap. I've NEVER seen my DAO come in on his day off because something urgent was happening. Thats how important his job is. Its so important anyone can be a DAO. Doesnt even require a pilots license or CBP experience. We have a BP agent that switched over to AMO and became a 15. He came with zero aviation experience. Not blaming him. Just the system that allows that. Thats like Delta having a travel agent become their chief pilot.

This is how a business fails. Lack of experience at the top, lack of incentive at the bottom and no clear purpose or direction.

Off we go comrade.

I love flying, and spent many years of blood, sweat and tears to get to where I am. Spent money and time away from family to get the pilot credentials I have now. Like I said. Im tired. Time to take my experience someplace that will pay me a good wage, and give me some control over my life. I like working hard, but I have a family too. What good is my pension if Im divorced and my kids hate me or barely know me for the next 7 years.

Thats my rant for today. Sitting in a hotel room, on my day off. Prepping for my airline interview.

manager: manage people, your employees are the enemy
leader: inspires people, to fight a common enemy

Eddie. Its time to retire. Spend it with the family you still have.

Since our leadership is unable to come up with any ideas, and only knows how to get pilots to quit, here are some ideas.

Work rules. Any rules.

1. Our two days off must be consecutive. Cannot give us Monday and Friday off, and work the other 5 days. It has to be two days in a row.

2. A comp day off for every 10 days TDY,

3. Two comp days off for every day off that falls on a TDY. If my day off is in a hotel room, thats not a day off.

4. No schedule changes without 7 days notice.

5. No pay cap supporting TDY or other urgent missions like hurricane support. This is allowable under law somehwhere, CBP just doesnt choose to do it.

5.5 2 hours comp time off for every $250 in money withheld due to pay cap per pay period.

6. 8 hours comp time off for every 40 hours worked between 2000-0600. If Im working a week of graveyard shift, give us a day to recoup.

7. An overtime day/6th day is paid at 1.5 and not subject to pay cap. LEAP should be used for unforeseen long days. An extra day scheduled in advance should be avoided and cost CBP.

8. Sick Leave can be sold back at 100% upon retirement. Stop encouraging people to call in sick. No more use it or lose it. The current retirement credit is worthless.

9. 1 hour of comp time earned per day for any TDY days over 10 days. A single TDY trip. A 30 day TDY would earn 20 hours comp time.

10. .5 hours comp time for each unscheduled hour worked beyond 12 hours. An unscheduled 14 hour day would earn us 1 hour of comp time.

11. Hire Mission Support people to do MISSION SUPPORT. Stop using pilots to do non LE or pilot duties. Why is a pilot doing branch vehicle reports, or radio comms, or cell phones. At least 5 MSS at each Branch, 2 at each Unit and no less then one MSS for every 12 Agents. No more 5 MSS trying to take care of 100 agents spread out over numerous units.

12. Allow 1 telework day per pay period/2 weeks. Why can Mission Support telework but we cannot. Thats 1 day every two weeks to do our timecards, travel claims, online training, or our collateral duty.

13. Have a national policy of some sort. Tired of each DAO having their own interpretation on how they can best make life miserable for their pilots.

14. if you care going to make someone take a G ride on a TDY, let them take it home for peats sake. Not drive an hour to the branch, move bags from POV to G ride, then hit the road for a TDY.

15. Every DAO must work at least one full and complete pay period on the worst shift, in a aircraft.

16. Mx must have a full Mx crew available +- 1 hour from planned launch time. No more pilots getting blamed and punished because the bird is broke on a Sunday and avionics isnt around to fix it.

17. Hire more aircrew. Not sure the formula. Stop using pilots to do other aircrew/non pilot duties. More SAMs and AEAs or whatever we call them this year. Come up with a formula and hire to it and fly to it. Stop demanding more flight hours from a branch when its thin on mechs, MSS and AEAs. Stop using LEAP to solve all your other manpower shortfalls.

18. Reward people. Unique quals, special duties, etc.

19. Hazard Duty Pay. Some people deserve it.

20. Full Disclosure. Every bonus in AMO should be public record. If its worth a bonus, its worth telling everyone. That specifically includes bonuses for GS-15s and SES.

21. Collective Bargaining !


Notice its not about the money. Its about having a balanced life and career. This job is not a deployment where you work stupid hours for 12 months and go home to a normal life. The purpose on many of these is not more good deals. The purpose is to hold DAOs accountable. There is currently no standard at all. 16 hours max and 10 hours off is the only policy DAOs have to abide by.

Just some ideas. Hey, Im stuck in a hotel on my day off.

This is a sincere question. I'm not trying to be snarky. Have you tried getting promoted to a supervisor or director level? Seems like it would solve a lot of your gripes and allow you to have some input to the decisions being made. If the supervisors or directors are former AMO pilots, are they able to stay qualified and current and fly once in a while? Just wondering what the negatives of being a supervisor would be.

That is a valid question. Supervisors rarely if ever get a chance to fly at my unit. There was even a time when supervisors could not be a PIC. I said I was a good pilot. Not necessarily a good middle manager. Did it as a temp. Not doing it again.

No organization is changed from the bottom up. Our current leaders need to be leaders. They need to do the job they applied for. I fly the airplanes and risk life and limb. They support us and take care of us. Watch our back, make sure we get paid, etc.

I realize they are gripes. If I thought I could make a difference and still fly, Id do it. I applied for SAIA at a different branch. A DAO I respect heard about it. Called me and talked me out of it. He regretted moving up.

Lets not forget, we all get the boot at 57. That means I still need to find a job at 57, and still need a maintain a resume. But I hope to retire at 20 like most everyone else. A promotion is a poor aviation career move.

Mandatory Retirement
 

In regards to getting the boot at 57. I am almost 40. From what I have read on the issue, if you haven't got your 20 in when you reach 57, you can stay until 60 at the latest. Is the staying till 60 an automatic thing or does this require approval by a supervisor? Can they deny you your retirement if they feel it is not in their best interest to keep you around?

*Generally* the government will not let you start an operational job with a pension unless you can qualify for the pension. If they let you start, they will generally let you finish. Obvious exception in the military you have to get promoted a few times (up or out), but you know either way by the the ten year mark. Always a slight potential for layoffs, job elimination, etc. but that doesn't seem to happen much on the LE side to my knowledge.

So typically they would not put you in the position of needing year-to-year waivers at the discretion of your immediate boss to get to the finish line... that kind of authority is held higher and typically by policy not exception. The one time in the mil when I had a guy in that position (odd combination of drilling and IRR reserve service), we were starting the paperwork to request the first of several needed one-year HYT extensions, and he got a proactive letter from PERS authorizing extension all the way to 20, before we even asked.

I would expect to get it in writing at the time of hire.

Holiday Pay/Overtime
 

New applicants, the devil is in the details. Here is the type of issues you have to look forward to.

I asked management today who is working the 4th of July holiday since the schedule still isn't published for July. I asked if there will be any seniority or system to determine who will be required to work that day.

BTW, its a Federal Holiday. So normally its a paid day off. Federal employees who are required to work that day get a premium pay to work on their "day off".

I was told whoever worked it last year will not be required to work it this year. OK, kinda fair I guess. People wont have to work on the 4th two years in a row. I asked if there is any preference to senior employees. No. Does the Mission Suport Staff work that day? No. Will management be here that day? No

Now here is the important part. I asked if we will get premium pay to work our day off, now that nearly all of us in the office are at the pay cap. Yep, you guessed it. His answer was, I don't know, but don't expect to make any extra money just because you are working a holiday now that you are capped.

There you have it. The bait and switch. Bait you with a special salary pay, then have you work for free on Sundays and holidays. So really its not a bonus. Its more pay for more work. But now the pay is capped.

Don't be fooled by this Special Salary Rate. Its good, but its has strings attached. Its like being in the military all over again. Everyone gets the same pay for different work. The E-3 mail clerk that never works nights or weekends gets the same pay as a E-3 that lives in the field and works nights and through the weekend. Not saying the ski is falling. Just saying this is what you should be prepared for.

These are the questions you should ask your recruiter. Remember, we are a 24/7 - 365 operation.

Do I get paid extra for nights, weekends and holidays? Will I get paid extra if my day off falls on a TDY day in a hotel? Will I get paid extra for any additional or special aviation qualifications or duties?

We do have nice uniforms, said nobody ever!

Service weapon
 

I just read an article about CBP recently announcing a switch from the H&K P2000 to the Glock G47. Will new hires at FLETC be qualifying with the P2000 or the G47? Are new hires being issued the new G47? Do AMO pilots carry a service weapon at all times when on duty?

Thanks

"Oh it’s all starting to make sense now. A person smart enough to transfer into a P3 branch as a GS13 when everyone else who had the job was a GS14. Then you want to claim people at other locals are over paid and you’re underpaid."

Can I get some more details on this? Are pilots at P3 branches normally paid at GS14 level? Why would everyone else who had the job be a GS14 and he isn't?

Also, if my goal is to get to a P3 branch, how long can I expect to wait until I can transfer to Corpus Christi or Jacksonville? Is their a certain base, aircraft, or path I should take to be more likely to get assigned a P3 branch? Thanks

Do you know by any chance if those 20 years have to be solely as a federal LEO, or can they include non-LEO federal government/military time.

You need 20 years LEO (6c) coverage. Under 6c your retirement is calculated at 1.7%/ year x the average of your high 3 years. Any years beyond 20 pay at the normal rate of 1%. You can buy back military time to tack on to retirement, which can add 1% per year of active duty service. The cost of the buy back is 3% of your military earnings.

It is a complex deal with many rules and details. Google FERS 6c and I'm sure OPM has a guide online somewhere.

Cool, thanks!

H&k p2000
 

I'm in the current academy class and we were issued H&K P2000. We are told that we will be getting the Glock G47 after we get to our units and probably within the year.

Historically, P-3 pilots are GS-14s. Recently D.C. decided that all new P-3 pilots would be hired or transferred in as GS-13, and in the future only half would become -14s. I have never seen anything in writing about the promotion to 14, though.

While it is possible, I would not expect to get to a P-3 location. There simply are not very many slots anticipated, even though there will be some retirements over the next three to five years. Headquarters is still courting some of the dwindling Navy P-3 guys but they all go directly to legacy airlines with not so much as a glance toward CBP. If they want the location, GS-14 SSR rate would be O.K. for some but the pay cap is the killer.

I should have said P-3 retirements beginning in three to five years.

You’re complaining management won’t be in the building? :eek:


At least the SSR counts towards your high three, no? I got twenty years of nights, Sundays and holidays that didn’t count for squat.



AMO recruiters make military recruiters look honest...



Baggy, tan polyester is the shizzz. :D