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Old 11-13-2017, 07:30 AM   #11
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All very true. Someone once described the difference between UPS airlines and FedEx to me as UPS being a trucking company that flew planes and vice versa, and the same comparison holds for Army/AF. The Army is a massive ground game with helicopters (Army FW is so miniscule it hardly counts). Witness the flightsuit assimilation police.

I went to Rucker with 3000 hours and a regional/night cargo background, and was stunned at the lack of "aviation" concerns - airspace, ATC, instrument flying. Just a different focus. Here at CBP we see tons of Army guys fail our checkride due to inability to fly an approach or hold.

Back to the OP, I know three RLO's who made the transition to ANG, one vipers and two heavy cargo. All went almost immediately after getting back from IERW, within a year. Probably had started their packets while still there.

I would think that the best transition from ARNG to ANG right now would be through active duty.
Agree with all. Fwiw I was active duty and had an ANG fighter unit wanting to hire me, but the army wouldnít let me out of my flight school commitment. By the time that was up, no unit wanted to hire me. I have heard ARNG will not hold you to the commitment if you are going into the air guard, so anyone in that position may have an easier out. Also fwiw, I had a very influential AF 3 Star try to get me an interservice transfer to active duty Air Force (with an associated UPT slot) and his buddy, the AETC commander, among others CCíd on the email, said there was no path on active duty to get the required waivers/ETPs for a guy seeking an interservice transfer and to stick with trying the ANG since they had more leeway. Perhaps times have changed in the last couple years. And perhaps with this shortage the Air Force should relook a FWQ or short UPT course like they had until 2012 or so.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:36 AM   #12
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So in the long run how do think this will deal with leaving the army as a 6 year fixed wing Warrant. Do the airlines not hire us as as fast as the other services or does that not matter? If I can get with a major I would probably only do my initial 6 year commitment.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:42 AM   #13
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So in the long run how do think this will deal with leaving the army as a 6 year fixed wing Warrant. Do the airlines not hire us as as fast as the other services or does that not matter? If I can get with a major I would probably only do my initial 6 year commitment.
Airlines don't care about UPT. Generally you'll have a leg up on civilians with similar times. Navy/AF probably have an advantage due to network, but once you get the call, it's yours to lose.

So the real question is how much FW TT and TPIC will you have?

Also on the off chance you don't have one yet you'll need a BS degree, that would be a big hurdle.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #14
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I do have a BS degree, it honestly seems like most of the warrants I went to flight school had one. And In my class of 6 that went through the initial entry fixed wing course all 6 had a degree.

And I'm assuming TT should be at least 2000 (about 300 hours a year is a very safe bet I think we'll get more than that.) And maybe half of that should be TPIC time as a safe estimate as well. I'm hoping that in 6 years from now that will allow me to transition straight to a major from the army.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:39 PM   #15
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I do have a BS degree, it honestly seems like most of the warrants I went to flight school had one. And In my class of 6 that went through the initial entry fixed wing course all 6 had a degree.

And I'm assuming TT should be at least 2000 (about 300 hours a year is a very safe bet I think we'll get more than that.) And maybe half of that should be TPIC time as a safe estimate as well. I'm hoping that in 6 years from now that will allow me to transition straight to a major from the army.
You will have a leg up, for sure. At the minimum, youíll at least qualify to have your app scored.

You get on with the new guaranteed FW track? I heard about it but havenít met anyone who actually went through it. Congrats! Youíre very, very, fortunate. Besides building time, working on making PC, and getting 1000 TPIC, one of your main efforts should be networking and meeting people who can give you recs for the Majors.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #16
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You will have a leg up, for sure. At the minimum, youíll at least qualify to have your app scored.

You get on with the new guaranteed FW track? I heard about it but havenít met anyone who actually went through it. Congrats! Youíre very, very, fortunate. Besides building time, working on making PC, and getting 1000 TPIC, one of your main efforts should be networking and meeting people who can give you recs for the Majors.

Yea it's an awesome program. We go through Upset Recovery Training where we do aerobatics and spins and whatnot. The trainer is a pretty powerful turbine powered single engine called the Grob 120TP. And compared to what I've heard about flight safety we get A LOT more specialized training because it isn't a transition anymore. I hate that fixed wing in the army gets such a bad rap but I know it used to be a kind of retirement home. At least that's what I've been told, (again I'm a new guy). We get a lot more hours than the guys just going through the transition get. We only fly helicopters for the very beginning of flight training before moving to fixed wing. The training is a lot of instruments, and we get to explore the full envelope of flight during UPRT taught by APS. And then after getting our wings we have even more fixed wing training that isn't at ft Rucker before we are even flying with our unit. I think the army is trying to change its whole dynamic in regards to the fixed wing community.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:55 PM   #17
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Yea it's an awesome program. We go through Upset Recovery Training where we do aerobatics and spins and whatnot. The trainer is a pretty powerful turbine powered single engine called the Grob 120TP. And compared to what I've heard about flight safety we get A LOT more specialized training because it isn't a transition anymore. I hate that fixed wing in the army gets such a bad rap but I know it used to be a kind of retirement home. At least that's what I've been told, (again I'm a new guy). We get a lot more hours than the guys just going through the transition get. We only fly helicopters for the very beginning of flight training before moving to fixed wing. The training is a lot of instruments, and we get to explore the full envelope of flight during UPRT taught by APS. And then after getting our wings we have even more fixed wing training that isn't at ft Rucker before we are even flying with our unit. I think the army is trying to change its whole dynamic in regards to the fixed wing community.
You will be set up for a major when you hit 6 years, by then you should be an IP, and possibly an SP. If you want some extra insurance get a masters degree. It is not nessesary, but you can do it for free and it will help the resume. I️ know of at least 7 National Guard FW guys that have been hired in the last year at the majors and Army Guard FW is a very small community. If by some chance a major doesn’t hire you, a regional will.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:30 PM   #18
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Not sure how itíll all pan out but i should be transitioning from my fixed wing cfi job to envoy here in about 2 months. Hoping that the leg up from being a military will get me a call from one of the majors before the flow would occur. And at that point my adso for an additional 6 should be done and I expect Iíll probably get out at that point. You never know though life has its cureveballs haha
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:42 PM   #19
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Not sure how itíll all pan out but i should be transitioning from my fixed wing cfi job to envoy here in about 2 months. Hoping that the leg up from being a military will get me a call from one of the majors before the flow would occur. And at that point my adso for an additional 6 should be done and I expect Iíll probably get out at that point. You never know though life has its cureveballs haha
Even if you do get out to concentrate on getting on the right seniority list, once you're there consider getting back in. Tricare reserve select is cheap and good. Having the "I think i'll stick around the house for a couple weeks and just fly a Lakota" is a nice card to have in your back pocket, as well whatever military retirements end up being.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:54 AM   #20
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I'm an Army Warrant with both a Bachelor and Master degrees. I had 2 type ratings (both jet) along with a regional and corporate background when I tried to transfer from the Army Guard to the Air Guard at my same base. I was preparing for my board when I got hit in the face with a memo.

The big change was back in 2011 when the National Guard Bureau (NGB) sent down a memo changing how inter service transfers were being handled. Basically, it changed the game requiring all transfers to meet the same age requirements as a new UPT applicant. Previously, if you were a rated military aviator, age wasn't a factor. Additionally, they were eliminating the fixed wing qualification course for transfers. The Air Guard recruiter called the COL who wrote the memo and had him on speaker phone. He was, to put it nicely, a "jerk" over the phone. It was obvious that he was NOT a fan of the Army.

So, that was that for me. I eventually transferred to the Reserves to fly C-12s. Certainly not KC-135s, but definitely a better quality of life if ya gotta stay flying in the Army.
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