Branch transfer Army to Air National Guard
As a commissioned Army NG rotary Pilot is it possible/difficult to transition to Air National Guard fixed wing? I currently fly fixed wing civilian as a cfi already. Any help is appreciated thanks
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Originally Posted by Mundergun
(Post 2463831)
As a commissioned Army NG rotary Pilot is it possible/difficult to transition to Air National Guard fixed wing? I currently fly fixed wing civilian as a cfi already. Any help is appreciated thanks
Bogidope.com and flyingsquadron.com have info on upcoming boards and a whole lot of other good info. Especially as a rated guy, you can rush most units outside of formal meet and greets and/or other times besides when they have an upcoming board. I rushed many units out of the blue and then applied when their boards came up. And you can get hired outside of the formal boards, as well. |
i know of several Marine Corps RW pilots that are now flying KC-135, definitely possible.
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Originally Posted by BigIron
(Post 2464736)
i know of several Marine Corps RW pilots that are now flying KC-135, definitely possible.
This is why the Army guys (especially commissioned) have such a big disadvantage. It’s 1.5-2 years before the unit gets them back from training. So by the time the ADSC from army flight school is up, most people are 29/30 or older, and unless they were warrants, they are senior captains/majors. Fighter units especially, but even heavy units, don’t seem to want those types, especially since waivers/ETPs are required for UPT. I’m not saying it’s impossible. After a long time rushing it worked for out for me, and I know of a few other army guys (some flyers, some ground pounders) who made it into UPT. I haven’t met one other former army pilot who was commissioned the whole time in the army and who went to UPT. The others i know were warrants first and then LTs when the ANG/USAFR hired them, or ground pounders who could get out at year 4 or 5. Being a senior captain RW only guy is not an ideal position when rushing guard units. But it isn’t impossible, and the shortage is helping. |
Man it feels like we get a lot of flak from other services as army guys. But I'm still pretty new and in no way trying to start trouble.
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Originally Posted by ArmyFW
(Post 2465052)
Man it feels like we get a lot of flak from other services as army guys. But I'm still pretty new and in no way trying to start trouble.
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I guess I see where you're coming from. Where does that leave the warrant officers lol.
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Originally Posted by ArmyFW
(Post 2465105)
I guess I see where you're coming from. Where does that leave the warrant officers lol.
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2465102)
Army aviation is the armpit of all military aviation. That’s what I was told by one of my teachers in college (AH64 and C12 guy). After 8 years in the army and being around fighter squadrons for the last 8 years, I have an appreciation for that statement, because it’s mostly true. Especially as commissioned guys, we don’t fly a lot and are never IPs. And we don’t have a recognized legitimate fixed wing training program. I kind of see their point—the year spent in Air Force pilot training covers a whole lot more than the army fixed wing course. Not sure what this new initial entry fixed wing course entails, but I’d be surprised if it was as comprehensive as SUPT. Plenty of my AF friends give mad props to the work we did killing stuff in apaches/kiowas, but the AF as an institution doesn’t really care for much of what we did in the army, unless it involves going to fly helos in the ANG. Army fixed wing guys don’t get much credit when going over to the AF. Not cool, but a fact. Maybe it’ll change with the new army fixed wing course, or maybe they will create a short course for army dudes to help free training resources in the Air Force.
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2465102)
Army aviation is the armpit of all military aviation. That’s what I was told by one of my teachers in college (AH64 and C12 guy). After 8 years in the army and being around fighter squadrons for the last 8 years, I have an appreciation for that statement, because it’s mostly true. Especially as commissioned guys, we don’t fly a lot and are never IPs. And we don’t have a recognized legitimate fixed wing training program. I kind of see their point—the year spent in Air Force pilot training covers a whole lot more than the army fixed wing course. Not sure what this new initial entry fixed wing course entails, but I’d be surprised if it was as comprehensive as SUPT. Plenty of my AF friends give mad props to the work we did killing stuff in apaches/kiowas, but the AF as an institution doesn’t really care for much of what we did in the army, unless it involves going to fly helos in the ANG. Army fixed wing guys don’t get much credit when going over to the AF. Not cool, but a fact. Maybe it’ll change with the new army fixed wing course, or maybe they will create a short course for army dudes to help free training resources in the Air Force.
I went to Rucker with 3000 hours and a regional/night cargo background, and was stunned at the lack of "aviation" concerns - airspace, ATC, instrument flying. Just a different focus. Here at CBP we see tons of Army guys fail our checkride due to inability to fly an approach or hold. Back to the OP, I know three RLO's who made the transition to ANG, one vipers and two heavy cargo. All went almost immediately after getting back from IERW, within a year. Probably had started their packets while still there. I would think that the best transition from ARNG to ANG right now would be through active duty. |
Originally Posted by DustoffVT
(Post 2465210)
All very true. Someone once described the difference between UPS airlines and FedEx to me as UPS being a trucking company that flew planes and vice versa, and the same comparison holds for Army/AF. The Army is a massive ground game with helicopters (Army FW is so miniscule it hardly counts). Witness the flightsuit assimilation police.
I went to Rucker with 3000 hours and a regional/night cargo background, and was stunned at the lack of "aviation" concerns - airspace, ATC, instrument flying. Just a different focus. Here at CBP we see tons of Army guys fail our checkride due to inability to fly an approach or hold. Back to the OP, I know three RLO's who made the transition to ANG, one vipers and two heavy cargo. All went almost immediately after getting back from IERW, within a year. Probably had started their packets while still there. I would think that the best transition from ARNG to ANG right now would be through active duty. |
So in the long run how do think this will deal with leaving the army as a 6 year fixed wing Warrant. Do the airlines not hire us as as fast as the other services or does that not matter? If I can get with a major I would probably only do my initial 6 year commitment.
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Originally Posted by ArmyFW
(Post 2465376)
So in the long run how do think this will deal with leaving the army as a 6 year fixed wing Warrant. Do the airlines not hire us as as fast as the other services or does that not matter? If I can get with a major I would probably only do my initial 6 year commitment.
So the real question is how much FW TT and TPIC will you have? Also on the off chance you don't have one yet you'll need a BS degree, that would be a big hurdle. |
I do have a BS degree, it honestly seems like most of the warrants I went to flight school had one. And In my class of 6 that went through the initial entry fixed wing course all 6 had a degree.
And I'm assuming TT should be at least 2000 (about 300 hours a year is a very safe bet I think we'll get more than that.) And maybe half of that should be TPIC time as a safe estimate as well. I'm hoping that in 6 years from now that will allow me to transition straight to a major from the army. |
Originally Posted by ArmyFW
(Post 2465404)
I do have a BS degree, it honestly seems like most of the warrants I went to flight school had one. And In my class of 6 that went through the initial entry fixed wing course all 6 had a degree.
And I'm assuming TT should be at least 2000 (about 300 hours a year is a very safe bet I think we'll get more than that.) And maybe half of that should be TPIC time as a safe estimate as well. I'm hoping that in 6 years from now that will allow me to transition straight to a major from the army. You get on with the new guaranteed FW track? I heard about it but haven’t met anyone who actually went through it. Congrats! You’re very, very, fortunate. Besides building time, working on making PC, and getting 1000 TPIC, one of your main efforts should be networking and meeting people who can give you recs for the Majors. |
Originally Posted by MIkeFavinger
(Post 2465439)
You will have a leg up, for sure. At the minimum, you’ll at least qualify to have your app scored.
You get on with the new guaranteed FW track? I heard about it but haven’t met anyone who actually went through it. Congrats! You’re very, very, fortunate. Besides building time, working on making PC, and getting 1000 TPIC, one of your main efforts should be networking and meeting people who can give you recs for the Majors. Yea it's an awesome program. We go through Upset Recovery Training where we do aerobatics and spins and whatnot. The trainer is a pretty powerful turbine powered single engine called the Grob 120TP. And compared to what I've heard about flight safety we get A LOT more specialized training because it isn't a transition anymore. I hate that fixed wing in the army gets such a bad rap but I know it used to be a kind of retirement home. At least that's what I've been told, (again I'm a new guy). We get a lot more hours than the guys just going through the transition get. We only fly helicopters for the very beginning of flight training before moving to fixed wing. The training is a lot of instruments, and we get to explore the full envelope of flight during UPRT taught by APS. And then after getting our wings we have even more fixed wing training that isn't at ft Rucker before we are even flying with our unit. I think the army is trying to change its whole dynamic in regards to the fixed wing community. |
Originally Posted by ArmyFW
(Post 2465452)
Yea it's an awesome program. We go through Upset Recovery Training where we do aerobatics and spins and whatnot. The trainer is a pretty powerful turbine powered single engine called the Grob 120TP. And compared to what I've heard about flight safety we get A LOT more specialized training because it isn't a transition anymore. I hate that fixed wing in the army gets such a bad rap but I know it used to be a kind of retirement home. At least that's what I've been told, (again I'm a new guy). We get a lot more hours than the guys just going through the transition get. We only fly helicopters for the very beginning of flight training before moving to fixed wing. The training is a lot of instruments, and we get to explore the full envelope of flight during UPRT taught by APS. And then after getting our wings we have even more fixed wing training that isn't at ft Rucker before we are even flying with our unit. I think the army is trying to change its whole dynamic in regards to the fixed wing community.
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Not sure how it’ll all pan out but i should be transitioning from my fixed wing cfi job to envoy here in about 2 months. Hoping that the leg up from being a military will get me a call from one of the majors before the flow would occur. And at that point my adso for an additional 6 should be done and I expect I’ll probably get out at that point. You never know though life has its cureveballs haha
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Originally Posted by Mundergun
(Post 2465518)
Not sure how it’ll all pan out but i should be transitioning from my fixed wing cfi job to envoy here in about 2 months. Hoping that the leg up from being a military will get me a call from one of the majors before the flow would occur. And at that point my adso for an additional 6 should be done and I expect I’ll probably get out at that point. You never know though life has its cureveballs haha
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I'm an Army Warrant with both a Bachelor and Master degrees. I had 2 type ratings (both jet) along with a regional and corporate background when I tried to transfer from the Army Guard to the Air Guard at my same base. I was preparing for my board when I got hit in the face with a memo.
The big change was back in 2011 when the National Guard Bureau (NGB) sent down a memo changing how inter service transfers were being handled. Basically, it changed the game requiring all transfers to meet the same age requirements as a new UPT applicant. Previously, if you were a rated military aviator, age wasn't a factor. Additionally, they were eliminating the fixed wing qualification course for transfers. The Air Guard recruiter called the COL who wrote the memo and had him on speaker phone. He was, to put it nicely, a "jerk" over the phone. It was obvious that he was NOT a fan of the Army. So, that was that for me. I eventually transferred to the Reserves to fly C-12s. Certainly not KC-135s, but definitely a better quality of life if ya gotta stay flying in the Army. |
It seems like it might not be worth the hassle I guess. 27 year old army 1LT. I think going to UPT wouldn’t be horrible though since I’m already a civilian fixed wing guy. Plus I’ll be starting at a WO regional here in a few months so if I left for UPT my seniority/flow would advance while at UPT.
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Originally Posted by Mundergun
(Post 2466540)
It seems like it might not be worth the hassle I guess. 27 year old army 1LT. I think going to UPT wouldn’t be horrible though since I’m already a civilian fixed wing guy. Plus I’ll be starting at a WO regional here in a few months so if I left for UPT my seniority/flow would advance while at UPT.
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To the OP, you already have a regional job to get FW hours that can take you to the majors. I understand wanting to go the fighter route, it is once in a lifetime. But hear this out. Go fly RPA's in the Guard. We have transferred 2 Army rotorheads so far in our unit. No UPT required, we don't deploy and it is all the title 10 that you can stomach. We have a ton of airline guys and it is a great network to use to get hired. It is still the AF and can be a pain in the ass at times, but not a bad way to finish 20.
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Originally Posted by pony172
(Post 2466927)
To the OP, you already have a regional job to get FW hours that can take you to the majors. I understand wanting to go the fighter route, it is once in a lifetime. But hear this out. Go fly RPA's in the Guard. We have transferred 2 Army rotorheads so far in our unit. No UPT required, we don't deploy and it is all the title 10 that you can stomach. We have a ton of airline guys and it is a great network to use to get hired. It is still the AF and can be a pain in the ass at times, but not a bad way to finish 20.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2466952)
"I am your father... "
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It is the darkside!
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2466952)
"I am your father... "
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I'd google it. It is a long list now, a lot of former fighter units. I would look at Guard over Reserve units because of the state structure. However, like real estate location is everything.
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Originally Posted by pony172
(Post 2466927)
To the OP, you already have a regional job to get FW hours that can take you to the majors. I understand wanting to go the fighter route, it is once in a lifetime. But hear this out. Go fly RPA's in the Guard. We have transferred 2 Army rotorheads so far in our unit. No UPT required, we don't deploy and it is all the title 10 that you can stomach. We have a ton of airline guys and it is a great network to use to get hired. It is still the AF and can be a pain in the ass at times, but not a bad way to finish 20.
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Originally Posted by Voski
(Post 2467774)
How long is the training? I’d be concerned about being out of the cockpit for over a year in building valuable 121 time for a major.
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You know, you make a strong cased for continued service as an RPA guy. I'm going to have to take a hard look at reserve units. I'm going to be in the ORD area, but I suppose if any of them are commutable by driving or by flying, that sounds like a really good gig.
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Originally Posted by Voski
(Post 2467901)
You know, you make a strong cased for continued service as an RPA guy. I'm going to have to take a hard look at reserve units. I'm going to be in the ORD area, but I suppose if any of them are commutable by driving or by flying, that sounds like a really good gig.
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