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USAF to try civilian to AF track

Old 12-07-2017, 04:48 AM
  #31  
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Give me an age waiver and I'll be in class tomorrow morning to fly AF helos.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:35 AM
  #32  
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So... there are two separate experiments going on here. All led by a CC who believes that eventually we can train pilots without airplanes and he is going to revolutionize pilot training with all that knowledge he’s learned through Air University.

1. Direct T-1 track
2. UPT Modernization Test (T-6’s to Fighters with VR and such thrown in)

I’m sure they will both be successful because those chosen to run these tests will make sure of it. They will cherry pick the applicants and fill in the gaps where needed to ensure success. Then the slippery slope will start. Lesser and lesser qualified candidates will go through it until eventually we will have to admit that the programs aren’t such good ideas (once this CC is gone). Finally, the next guy will have to attempt to clean up the mess and overall we will suffer because of it. Standard Air Force story.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:42 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by tailwheel48 View Post
There are plenty of perfectly capable Air Forces around the world that don't require candidates to have a degree to be selected for pilot training. And they get commissioned on graduation.
Apples to Oranges, can any of them gain air superiority over our AF?

The AF does not have the same problem as the regionals, there are plenty of potential applicants who meet the current standards. Their problem is retention of skilled and experienced mid-grade, and even senior officers.

Frankly our military is trending far more technical than when I started. The F-35 is more network router than airplane.

I have no problem at all providing a path to flight training, commissioning, and college for exemplary enlisted (that's how the USN program worked, college after first sea tour). Great incentive to keep good folks in, and tracking up and right.

But that's not going to solve the shortage. Neither is creating a cadre of enlisted-only pilots... they would have an even greater pay and prestige incentive to go airline, since they won't have eagles or stars in their eyes.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:31 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Apples to Oranges, can any of them gain air superiority over our AF?
Sheer numerical advantage goes to the USAF.

But, pilot to pilot, I would contend that the NATO air forces, Israeli Air Force, RAAF and several others are just as good.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:33 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Apples to Oranges, can any of them gain air superiority over our AF?

The AF does not have the same problem as the regionals, there are plenty of potential applicants who meet the current standards. Their problem is retention of skilled and experienced mid-grade, and even senior officers.

Frankly our military is trending far more technical than when I started. The F-35 is more network router than airplane.

I have no problem at all providing a path to flight training, commissioning, and college for exemplary enlisted (that's how the USN program worked, college after first sea tour). Great incentive to keep good folks in, and tracking up and right.

But that's not going to solve the shortage. Neither is creating a cadre of enlisted-only pilots... they would have an even greater pay and prestige incentive to go airline, since they won't have eagles or stars in their eyes.
+1. For me. I don’t see the problem this will solve.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Airbum View Post
+1. For me. I don’t see the problem this will solve.
This will solve the current CC's problem.
Screw the future CCs!
Same old Air Force story.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:22 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by tailwheel48 View Post
Sheer numerical advantage goes to the USAF.

But, pilot to pilot, I would contend that the NATO air forces, Israeli Air Force, RAAF and several others are just as good.
Man-to-man, yes.

As a joint force, no.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:41 AM
  #38  
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The bureaucracy is incapable of fixing the problem. It’s almost pointless to even discuss it. The top brass are too stuck in their ways that staff tours at pointless and outdated combatant commands and quintuple redundant battle staffs in theater are an absolute must for anyone to promoted. The entire DOD is married to an outdated rank structure that leaves no room for officers or enlisted regardless of their job in the military to have any say in their career path.

This problem could be solved by having two distinct career tracks. A flying track and a command track. Let Academy grads and those who demonstrate significant leadership and managerial skill go into the command track while those that are content to just fly pointy nosed jets or simply serve their country without putting up with more nonsense than they do flying or those that just don’t have the mindset or capabilities to command can go the flying track. Pay and benefits for both tracks would need to be similar.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:57 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by KA350Driver View Post
The bureaucracy is incapable of fixing the problem. It’s almost pointless to even discuss it. The top brass are too stuck in their ways that staff tours at pointless and outdated combatant commands and quintuple redundant battle staffs in theater are an absolute must for anyone to promoted. The entire DOD is married to an outdated rank structure that leaves no room for officers or enlisted regardless of their job in the military to have any say in their career path.

This problem could be solved by having two distinct career tracks. A flying track and a command track. Let Academy grads and those who demonstrate significant leadership and managerial skill go into the command track while those that are content to just fly pointy nosed jets or simply serve their country without putting up with more nonsense than they do flying or those that just don’t have the mindset or capabilities to command can go the flying track. Pay and benefits for both tracks would need to be similar.
Warrant Officer.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:03 AM
  #40  
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Call it what you want. Warrant Officer, flight lieutenant, whatever. The point is pay should be competitive and non flying duties should be kept to a minimum, in not non existent. And that’s only part of the solution. The other half of the equation is reducing the amount of staff positions that exist. Most of them only exist for the sole reason of having enough staff position so officers have somewhere to go to check their staff tour box. Maybe we should be questioning whether or not a box should even exist next to “staff tour” in order to get promoted. Maybe we should be questioning whether or not these staffs are even necessary.
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