ViperGuy69

Anyone else out there on the fence about retiring/going airlines vs staying in the AF another tour and taking the pilot bonus?

I have the option to stay in T-38 land another 3-4 years and take the “old guy” pilot bonus ($35-50k per year depending on FY18 announcement). The good: it’s my wife’s home town, I’m home every night and almost every weekend, I can help take care of my in-laws who have medical issues, kids are established in jr high and high school, and the short-term bonus money would be great. The bad: I’m burned out on the AF and will probably end up getting tagged for a 6-month deployment at some point.

I know right now is a great time to jump into the airline hiring wave, and my seniority would move quickly over the next 3-4 years, giving me a better schedule and great pay. I’m competitive for the majors but wondering if the QOL as an airline guy is really worth the money while the kiddos are still at home. I would be commuting for the first 6 years at least until my youngest goes to college (unless I get hired by AA and could sit LC from DFW).

Anybody make the leap recently and wish they’d stayed in?

Thanks!

JTwift

As a recently retired (last year) guy that hasn't had things work out the way I'd hoped/planned, I'm just going to throw out some thoughts in no particular order. I hope you don't mind one more time with bullet points! Some of this will overlap what you wrote, but I'm just typing here....

I'm also going to try and get this in before you get eight people telling you how much seniority and future income you're going to lose out on.

- I know quite a few military who got hired at Majors. I know quite a few military who didn't (interviewed, not hired). I'm one of those guys. Interviewed at two, not hired at either. Do I suck at interviews? Maybe. I dunno. I thought I did ok, but apparently it wasn't enough. But that's ok....keep reading.

- You can always apply and put a "future availability" date of 8 months, or some such. If you get the call, then you have the decision to make. If you don't, then the decision is made for you.

- With the airlines, you will be gone. You will not be home every night. However, you also won't be doing 6 months at a time. This is going to entirely depend on your family. It may actually be easier on them to know you're doing one 6-monther instead of dealing with multiple 3-5 days every month. Only you can answer this.

- Getting the retirement is key. It gives you tons of options and a nice safety net, plus bonuses (ID card, Tricare, etc). If you were at 17 years, I'd argue to stay, but since you're at 20+, you're there. yay!

- You can be an airline pilot from anywhere. You just have to decide if the commute is worth it. I don't know which T-38 base you're at, but it could be a hellish commute, depending on the base you're assigned. Probably at least a two-hopper with only a few flights a day.

- I understand being burned out. When I retired, the biggest shock to me was (drum roll), being able to go somewhere without having to be on a pass or take leave, or let anyone know where I was going. I could load up my family, drive to wherever, and just do it all on a whim. No boss calling, no permission slips....it's like you're an adult again. I also haven't had to endure any Red Dot videos. Bonus.

- The pilot hiring wave is just starting. Yes, I know you'll miss out on a few years, but if it helps stabilize your family, get you a nice bonus, plus a few more 2.5% additives to your retirement check, that isn't such a bad deal, in my opinion. This one rests entirely on your family situation, in my opinion.

- So, to back up some of my points.....I ended up at a Regional for a little bit, but quit because sitting reserve in NYC for $30, while paying for a crashpad + meals, being away from home 20+ days a month...it wasn't worth it to me. Airline flying was fine, I guess. It's just about zero percent exciting, but that isn't why people do it (they do it for the money and, ancillary, for the love of flying). The biggest hit was my family. My son is right at the age where, after 20 years of military and being gone a lot, he just wants me around. He would cry every night I was gone. I figured that I'd rather not be on my deathbed and regret all those (additional) missed days/nights just so I could have more seniority and a bit more money. Not worth it to me.

In a few years, when he's grown and away, I may try again. We'll see. It's certainly not the life for everyone. Living out of a bag, hotel rooms, cab rides, crashpads, airports, over and over.....meh.

If I had gotten hired by one of the Majors I interviewed with, I'm sure I would have sucked it up and stuck with it. But, it seems a bit like a silver lining.

In the mean time, I got hired to teach the simulator for a corporate jet. It keeps me around aviation, I enjoy instructing, it's a fun new plane, and I get to be home every night. I won't get rich doing it, but that's fine. Between it and my retirement/disability pay, I'm about equal, or slightly over where I was when I was active duty, and that was comfortable living.

So....do with that information as you wish. You have some thinking to do.

Hit me up, either here or PM, if you have any more questions.

Sliceback

SW is also a DFW option but the Big 3 have better career projections.

UA IAH is a fairly easy commute and drivable in a pinch.

Bailout, bailout, boom.... and then stay in the reserves and get a mil retirement. If you’ve got 20 yrs in I think the majority of the guys who’ve gone the mil to airline route would say leave.

Every month delayed takes away $25-30K per month minus your current pay and retirement pay not taken between AD DOS and age 60.

As well as getting hired 1000-4000 guys more junior. Minimum increase in your final number at AA of approximately 500-600. 1600 vs perhaps <1000. That’s a lot of bidding horsepower, the difference between being a 777/787 CA junior line holder and reserve.

You’re looking at 1.5-2 yrs commuting back to DFW if you got on with AA. The problem is we don’t get to pick the airline, they pick us.

First year pay, without membership in the check a month club, is tougher. Roughly $80K. Second yr roughly $130K, third year $130-170K depending upon rsv vs a hustling line holder. Rsv annual income is basically 90% of your hourly rate ($88= $80K) and a line holder can easily get 100-110% ($150/hr = up to $165K annual)

Sliceback

You’ll never get tacked for an X month deployment. Your days off are exactly that - O.F.F. Ask an FO they had to talk with their supervisor - “uh, what you talking about?!?!” As a Captain the last time I was called by my CP was maybe 15-25 yrs ago? It just doesn’t happen for 97-99% I’d tje guys. Do your job and go home. Done.

You’ll have to commute for at least 1-2 yrs, and maybe you’re entire career, but guys have chosen that option for decades. Some commute because they get to live in their home town, amongst their extended families, forever. But commuting isn't free. It eats into your time off, but if momma is happy...

And if you can’t get a major job before your DOS get a regional job. $50-60K with bonuses but your objective is to bail before you qualify for all the bonuses. Don’t do an ISR job. Go get 121 qualified. Start learning the new environment.

Lead turn is easily 6-10 months to get hired. APC has a stick thread about lead turning the transition. From first contact with pilot recruitment to training start is 3-6 months. So if you want to start at a major in May you need to be contacted now.

Good luck.

SaltyDog

JTwift has a good and real perspective. Had a friend that ended up corporate after doing instructing like JT is doing, and he truly enjoys his new life (been doing it for several years now) after thinking he wanted airlines. All worked out.

Sounds like family is in good position for you to stay USAF. Worse things than flying a T-38 for a few more years. Airline life will challenge your time with the family and the medical needs of your family if commuting.
Downside. You do give up seniority but if doing so after the kids are mostly out of the house, then just you and your wife have to absorb the change and doable.
I bailed off AD at a time when everyone was furloughing. Most thought I was duummmmbbbb to bail out. Probably, but it worked out. Took awhile, but all is well.

Castle Bravo

If you're at 19 or 20+ yrs, put yer papers in and PUNCH! Life is Good on the outside.

If you're at 16+ yrs, consider transferring the GI Bill to the kiddos. It can be absolutely amazing when combined with the Yellow Ribbon. Like, jaw dropping. It's a 4 yr commitment to xfer, but worth it if you want at least one kid to go to school for free.

Retirement brings steady pay, benefits, and (relative to airline plans) absurdly cheap Tricare health coverage. Many guys pay $600 or more a month for coverage with their company. That adds up.

If you're at 15 years or less, PUNCH and join a reserve/guard unit so that retired pay kicks in eventually.

YMMV. Good luck.

trip

I'd stay for family. Commuting will suck the benefits of airline life out fast. The airlines will still be around when your ready.

Sliceback

If you get a major job are you moving right away or commuting?
Or when you got your major job did you move or commute?

Few people move to their first assignment. They just commute for the first 6 to 24 months.

PRS Guitars

You need to take the long view on this. If you are going to be an airline pilot...then do it now. If you’re unsure about it then that’s a different story.

I left a very cushy AD job as a PIT IP. Put papers in in 2013 with no jobs lined up. Got on with a major just in time and got a reserve job. Made $40 an hour my first year at the airline, had no retirement but a reserve job. Commuted to both jobs (still do, though trying to reduce to one). With all that said, I’ve never regretted it, for me the grass was/ is greener.

Your first year will suck, it’s an adjustment. Take the long view though. Imagine yourself in 3 years. You’ll likely have weekends off and a decent schedule, making $150 to $200k, living a nice life with more time with your family than you are accustomed too now. Or...you’ll be a brand new FO, with 2000 guys senior to you most of which are younger (not good). Now imagine yourself in 20 years, that’s where those younger and senior guys really effect you.

I’ve seen you ask some good questions on the AA side, but please don’t factor any of that stuff into your decision matrix as to wether to jump ship now or later. For your first 18 months, your commute/equipment/type of trips/profit sharing/where you can sit reserve from (by the way, you can sit LC from anywhere you want!) etc don’t matter. You’re not doing this job for the QOL offered in the first 18 months, rather you’re enduring the first 18 months to have a fantastic job over the next 20 to 25 years. The payoff is later.

One other thing, look into retired reserves, speak to your local reserve Squadron today about it! I’m assuming the 5th, maybe the 97th (not sure exactly where you are.

I’m sending you a PM as well.

Sputnik

I read the post and feel like what you are saying is that you want to stay in, life is good and it'd be great to continue as is. And if that's how you feel, by all means stay in. Your family will love it and possibly you will too. The airlines will still be there in 3 years.

What gives me some pause was the following:


Everyone knows someone who stayed one assignment too many. Whether they were good guys or not, their unhappiness with the decision to stay in bled over into the squadron.

Ultimately the reason I punched was that I didn't want to be that guy. Was enjoying AF till the day I left, but I knew deep down it was time. Wanted to go out on a high note.

Granted, I'm basing all of this on one post. I don't think there is a right answer, you will be ok either way.

As others have alluded, airline first year can be rough. I was pretty miserable that year, now in my 4th year I'm glad I sucked it up. A good friend quit during OE (no longer flying at all), he is glad too.