Otterbox

I believe consolidation requirements are set by the FAA for the airline vice internally by the company.

Best advice I can give is talk to the Union Rep that deals with the Mil leave stuff, and see what they have to say. They may have an adequate solution for your specific situation that makes everyone involved happy.

FlyingBulldog

Thanks for the advice. I’ll talk to them and see what can be done, if anything.


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sailingfun

You are required to notify your employer when you become aware of a military duty requirement. Failure to do so could result in a loss of protections under the law.

FlyingBulldog

I've heard that comment a few times in various conversations about USERRA, but after reading the actual statute, it appears to be unfounded. I do agree that it is considerate to notify your employer as soon as practical after becoming aware, but it doesn't seem to be required. The law only says "advance written or verbal notice of such service to such person's employer," which technically could be as late as the day before leaving. It doesn't really apply in this case (because they already received notice), but if you can point out otherwise in the law somewhere, I'd really like to see it.

Thanks

Ski Bird

I see.

Personally, I would delay the initial school until returning from the deployment (although you certainly wouldn't be required to).

So pretty much, the options are:

1) Accept/schedule the training. Attend sim training, not finish due to deployment/activation, then come back and restart this training as if you hadn't started in the first place.

2) Accept/schedule the training. Attend sim training, finish, then immediately deploy. Upon your return, you pick up where you left off. (It looked like this timeline might have been possible ... but maybe not probable)

3) Inform your employer that you have an upcoming period of active duty that will cause a scheduling conflict, and that you will have to reschedule the training dates until after the activation.

Nothing is outright wrong with any of these, but they each have different pros and cons that will have to be weighed.

Option #1 — This one might come with a little bit of unofficial stink eye from the company. Not a great look for a new guy.

Option #2 — This one sounds like the worst case scenario actually ... it sort of paints you into a corner. Let's say you do complete the initial sim training then bounce (I don't know how long the activation is, but I'm assuming it's at least a few months).

Well, now you come back. You are rusty as heck in the company airframe and get whatever recurrent sim is currently on offer ... then you go into your IOE with a huge — and totally avoidable — gap between the school that qualified you for the seat and the 'if-you-dork-this-part-up-you-are-terminated' line work that will take your training wheels off.

(This all assumes that you are a new guy that actually has to be taught what you are being taught in the ground school. You know your situation better than anyone else. If this ground training / sim event is just a box-checker event ... then it's not as big of a deal.)

Option #3 — This is sort of the best road forward (in my opinion). No unofficial stink-eye for the new guy. No huge gap between training and initial flights.

I bet your guard unit (or reserve unit) can even float you a few days in the run up to the activation. Particularly if making yourself available for this activation will hit you in the wallet.

rickair7777

No. You're required to notify them in a timely manner, which is not clearly defined.

On somebody's spreadsheet list of people who are going on Det? That's not official.

Been notified of MOB by CO or personnel command, but don't have orders in hand? That's a WARNO.

Have orders, but haven't completed pre-mob medical screening? You still have a good case that it's not a done deal. Also if it's voluntary orders such that you can back out prior to execution than you can always claim you were undecided about going through with it.

I ALWAYS notify pretty late in the game. My annual drill sked is a draft and subject to constant change... don't want to do a bunch of paperwork and then have to change it all up.

Unless you painfully short-cycle the employer without good reason, reasonable notification will hold up in court. Reasonable depends on your job, how long you'll be gone, and how hard you are to replace. If you notify an employer early, you can lose out on promotions, good-deal assignments, etc. You also risk awkwardness if the MOB cancels and they've already hired/assigned and trained a temp to cover for you.

Give them time to cover for you, but don't create a lengthy "no mans land" where you're there but not really fully in play (that's more for 9-5 types, or small 135/91 ops). 30 days is typically plenty for airline pilots.

If you're great buds with the boss, then sure let him know up front.

SaltyDog

[QUOT2544380]You are required to notify your employer when you become aware of a military duty requirement. Failure to do so could result in a loss of protections under the law.[/QUOTE]

Im with rickair7777 again. plus...
Don't confuse DOD/ESGR/Service Component/Company directives/policies/suggestions/requests to notify as far in advance as possible for USERRA statute requirements.
USERRA has protections for notification (even if after departed for service).

Not required when you become aware. Recent history with funding not even certain, orders could be cancelled, modified etc. Then in a crack if notified and now want to change with employer. Its own set of challenges.

Some companies cannot even process notifications to far in advance as suggested by everyone. Additionally, if have a contract, management may even deny contractual benefits based on 'to far in advance notification' saying military notification supersedes contract protections. It is done so be wise.
Always be a good diplomat for your service component, your fellow pilots and your company. DOL VETS allows companies to say just about anything, if USERRA doesnt require it, DOL VETS assumes you know your protections. You can agree to do things not required by USERRA and thats on you. If you want to do something you don't have too under USERRA, your prerogative. Don't recommend it though. Know USERRA.
https://www.dol.gov/vets/usc/vpl/usc38.htm

SaltyDog

The "escalator clause" is to return you as if you had never left.
I wont go in detail, will share the fast read:

“Escalator” Position
See https://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/us...t%20Guide.html

20 CFR 1002.192

"The reemployment position with the highest priority in the reemployment schemes reflects the “escalator” principle that has been a key concept in federal veterans’ reemployment legislation. The escalator principle requires that each returning service member be reemployed in the position the person would have occupied with reasonable certainty if the person had remained continuously employed, with full seniority.

The position may not necessarily be the same job the person previously held. For instance, if the person would have been promoted with reasonable certainty had the person not been absent, the person would be entitled to that promotion upon reinstatement. On the other hand, depending on economic circumstances, reorganizations, layoffs, etc., the position could be at a lower level than the one previously held, it could be a different job, or it could conceivably be in layoff status. In other words, the escalator can move up or down."

Keep records of what is the current movement in a career at your employer. PM sent

Flying Enoch

I second this. Or, instead of "not telling them" you're leaving, maybe it's better to not start training until you have the timeline to complete the training and consolidation period. Again, this is for your own benefit as rickair pointed out. I understand wanting the seniority and job security, but the risk of being unsuccessful due to breaks in training isn't worth the risk. A 121 unsat or failure is far worse than the reward that the additional seniority gives you by taking a leave through training. Just like all other ratings, retention weighs big in the overall success.

Also, although USERAA protects service men and women, almost all 121 carriers have the probationary clause that says "one can be terminated for ANY reason, without cause, during their first 365 days of employment". When a leave is requested, regardless of which type of leave, employers weigh out if one would need remedial training and the time/cost associated with it. One may need to be completely retrain (a huge expense), or simply just need 3 takeoffs/landing upon returning. Again, USERRA will protect you against the leave regardless, but don't be surprised that a termination may be in line for a plethora of other reasons, as you are on still on probationary status for a year.
The best practice is communication in these cases. Find out the ramifications prior to treading this water.

This is coming from a former hiring panel guy at a 121 regional carrier. I've seen it happen before.

Thank you for your service.

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FlyingBulldog

Thanks for the insight, Ski Bird. That’s some great advice. I’m honestly leaning toward option 2 (and of course giving them proper notification). I’m confident that I can come back from deployment ready to pick back up, especially if I get the couple sims I’m told I’d get to warm back up and have the month of time off (still on orders) to study prior to that. It’s now looking like the timeline for this might be probable actually...