ArmyFW

There are very very few 19-20 year old WO1’s. I was the youngest everywhere I went on Ft. Rucker, and am the youngest at my unit currently at 23. I was prior enlisted for 4 years (joined at 17), and was an NCO before I switched over to Warrant which helped a little but the jobs are completely different. There are not many street to seaters most are prior enlisted, and of those street to seaters almost all are older and have degrees and life experience. In my unit of the other 4 WO1’s we have one is 35 (street to seat) with 3500 civilian flight hours, another is a 26 year old (street to seat) with a degree in biology who had a good paying job prior to joining, another is a 32 year old (prior E-6), and a 36 year old (prior Air Force E-7).

Also we do get chances to lead, just not in the “traditional military sense.” The additional duties we perform aren’t just menial tasks, and our Safety, AMSO, IP, and MTP positions are battalion level jobs. Just adding another army perspective.

navigatro

The Air Force leadership (i.e. 4 stars) obviously don't want Warrants.

What they could do is offer pilots a career "track" option at the 4 year point:

1. fly only, 15 year retirement, no PME or staff crap.

2. leadership track - like it is now for all pilots

Hobbit64

This!
As a Warrant myself, this sounds like the best idea. Most importantly because y'all would keep the rank (i.e. pay).

kbay hombre

I didn't say the Army was overrun with teenage pilots; I just said the army had operational teenage pilots/officers. No disrespect intended - as I said before, every army warrant I've met has been a professional and I know you guys are great pilots.

And, I've met two teenage UH-60 pilots, one at Schofield and one at Rucker when I was visiting an in-law who is now a retired army aviator. I'm speaking from experience though maybe those happened to be very rare. The army actually has an article about a high school to flight school warrant who was flying the Apache at 20 (https://www.army.mil/article/31913/h..._flight_school). My point was simply that you can't apply a one-size-fits-all rationale/logic of "warrants are usually older, as/more educated and more experienced" than a 23 year old O1 in flight school when it's a fact that you can be an officer at 18 and a pilot flying attack helos at 19-20 in the army.

kbay hombre

Yeah I hadn't heard of them until I met a guy in the sandbox who did this at a junior college in New Mexico. There are several lesser-known commissioning sources and one is a small group of "military junior colleges" that are 2-year "mini-service academies" where you go there, get an associates degree and get commissioned with the plan to get a bachelor's degree as a JO. I believe that ONLY the Army does 2-year junior college option this and it's not an option for the other services.

Check out the wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_junior_college

Sputnik

That checks. Met a few as well. Got commissioned as 20 year olds. I thought they were required to get a bachelors to make Capt, but wouldn't swear on it. NMMI is the only school I personally met folks from, but there may be others that do it.

BeatNavy

There was a 1LT in my CPT PME class who did one of these things. He had to finish his bachelors in order to make O3. This was 6 years ago.

kbay hombre

In retrospect, if I was going to go army, I would have gone this route. Getting a commission before you can legally drink a beer is a bit much but there's something to be said about retiring at 40.

SikorskyDriver

Felt like I needed to chime in since there are alot of misunderstandings about how the Warrant Officer Corps works in the Army.

#1. Are there 19 year old pilots, yes. Most are highly, highly qualified. Think eagle scout ect. and very mature. The High School to Flight school is a marketing gimmick that results in most getting enlisted as something else to get em in the door. The same way the navy will offer you a "shot" at BUD/s knowing you have no chance and will be sent to the fleet as an undesignated seaman.

#2. In my class of 55 pilots, we had two under 20.

#3. The vast majority are prior service NCO's with former crew chiefs making up the largest single set. Of those I'd say 75% come in with 4 year degrees. Degree's are kinda the expected entry level document for most professions now. It no longer sets anyone apart. The difference being you can start the job as a WO without one, but if your gonna make CW3 you'll probably need it just based on the fact everyone else has one.

#4. All Army aircraft are dual pilot. For crews it is often within regulations to approve an 800 hour cockpit. ( We change crews in a company almost every time we fly) But in reality the unofficial number in my battalion is nothing less than a 1000 hour cockpit gets approved. So while that PI may have 140 hours out of flight school, he will not fly with anyone who has less than 860 at first, and the scale adjusts as it grows. That also includes that they will not fly with anyone except an instructor pilot or MTP for a pretty good amount of time as well. Even at 500/500 that combination is not likely and the number often goes well above 1000 hours combined experience in every cockpit, on every flight. 1000 is the minimum, and will require an explanation on why. Most cockpits end up being closer to 1400+ hours combined experience. Basically the first couple years out of flight school is still flight school for us, and thats how they are able to do it in half the time. 18 months of school followed by about 3-5 years of on the job training to make Pilot in Command, and then they still are not going to turn around and let you fly with a junior PI for a long time. I've seen two LT's, both had just made pilot in command and were competent and safe, get approved for traffic patterns with a combined 750 hour cockpit. Traffic Patterns. No emergency procedures. No passengers. Two crew chiefs. On a perfect day. I dont expect to see that again for years.

#5. So for those 1LT's and Captains, they are groomed in the cockpit by the senior CW2's 3's and 4's and on the officer side by whatever the hell the staff guys push down to them. Not my lane, and never will be. Staff guys at the battalion rarely fly unless we are short on pilots and considering most times we dont have a high enough experience mix to get all 10 of the company's blackhawks off the ground at the same time we do occasionally pull from them. It's not the best option and usually we will pull another WO from another company instead to get the right crew experience mix before that happens. The LT's and Company CO fly all the time. Without them we wouldn't be able to pull off larger air assaults. A company only has 20 pilots and 10 aircraft. There is no one extra. In an assault unit they act as Air Mission Commanders, and ultimately do make decisions about the overall mission based on what the Flight Lead (Always a Warrant Officer) advises. The flight lead drives the mission tactically, and is responsible for overall planning and execution of the mission. The AMC is responsible overall, but his focus is on who and where, our focus is on how.

#6 While these may not seem like very high hour numbers vs our fixed wing counterparts, a blackhawk has only 2 hours useful fuel and its time to put it down, so those hours do represent an awful lot of FARPS and time spent near the ground. Its not uncommon for us to land and depart 4 or more pads or airfields or pinnacles or riverbeds or fields in a routine movement. We also spend the majority of our time at 1000' agl or below, and much of it where I'm at now is below 600' agl I got upto 3000' today on a maintenance flight and felt like I could reach out and touch space.

#7 Grass is not greener at all. With the rotary to airline programs popping up, everyone is running for the door. Out of my company (10 aircraft 20 pilots, which includes the 2 LT and 1 Cpt) only a couple are planning to stay in. Due to the same quality of life problems and additional duties common in the other branches. While we don't get promoted out of the cockpit as CWO's we have alot of additional duties that take our focus away from flying. I believe the other branches have specific MOS's for alot of the positions we are expected to fill. If I see less than a 12 hour day my wife asks why I'm home so early. It doesnt happen often.
#8 I dont know how they would use Air Force Warrants, but the system does at least give a place for those who want to be good at what they do without being forced into another career field after a couple of years. Only taking a couple people and growing them from the bottom does work for us. Our Lt. Col knows what we can do, he was there at one time, and his WO counterpart spent 20 years at the company level kept continuing to hone those skills. Our Lt. Col doesnt ask his XO for advice on if we can execute a mission, he asks his CW4 who's been doing it for 20 years straight.

HercDriver130

Back to the OP.... I was an active duty AF pilot 1985-1992. The AF wont solve its staffing problem until they have a solid pilot career path available, bonus's will have to go up.... and this ops tempo that they have been in for the better part of 25 years has to come to an end. Endless deployments have to cease. Its on most levels about QOL...... end of story.