Future airline hiring wave
05-27-2018, 07:31 PM
#1
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Future airline hiring wave
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
05-27-2018, 07:58 PM
#2
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,480
Originally Posted by mikey1029
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
How many additional openings will occur depends upon how the economy is doing at that time. If you can predict that with any certainty, pm me with stock tips.
05-27-2018, 09:09 PM
#3
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by mikey1029
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.
My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.
What is stopping you from applying for the WOFT street-to-seat/highschool to flight school program? Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you couldn't do it and had to enlist first? I would never advise my friends, or my own kids to enlist hoping to get a warrant packet approved. It isn't quick. Or, you can apply off the street as a high school kid and go straight to flight school. And there are guard units right now hurting for pilots. My stick buddy (army speak for sim/flying parter) was 18 and right off the street.
I know zero about your situation, and everyone has reasons for doing stuff, but if I were you, I'd tear up the contract you have, and insist on getting a flight/warrant contract.
Let's assume you drop your packet and get it approved in 3 years from now (though 5 is more conservative and realistic). Then you go to Rucker a year later after you get your packet submitted and accepted. That's 4 years from now. You leave rucker after 1.5 years of flight school (5.5 from now). Your commitment is 6 years from getting wings, although I heard that is going to 8. For arguments sake, lets say its 6...so that's 11.5 years from now. You'll have your GI bill by then, and/or you start doing an RTP, if they are still around in 11-12 years. The soonest you could touch an airline cockpit is 12 years from now. I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15 years depending on the aforementioned variables.
If you go straight to warrant, 1) your pay will be higher, 2) your commitment will end sooner, and 3) you might be able to get to the airlines before the hiring wave slows significantly. If you go guard, all of the above is true, but you can go part time for your commitment and can get an airline job before your flight commitment is up.
If you really want to be an airline pilot, there are programs out there and loans available that can accelerate that process and get you in a jet cockpit a lot faster...like 3-4 years. With regional pay/bonuses, it's doable. You can enlist or go warrant in the guard after you've started that journey if you really want to.
Anyway, hate to try to steer you away from your current course if that's what you want, but I want you to have your eyes wide open about the reality of the path you are trying to go down. If your end-state is airlines, there are quicker ways to get there, and ones that will put you a whole lot better off in the long run seniority wise. And this industry will likely be way different in 12 years.
Good luck whatever you do, and thanks for serving.
05-27-2018, 09:45 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
If you are going to drop a warrant packet, you'll need some LORs from senior officers and/or warrant officers, and possibly chain of command support. As a brand new guy, some commanders may not sign off on that until a period of demonstrated excellence (not sure if commander's signature is required for warrant packet, but likely is). Most guys I know who wrote LORs for people required the whole packet to be complete (minus the LORs), a review of the packet and an interview. As a brand new private, it may be difficult to get enough CW4/CW5s to write you letters of rec from your local aviation brigade, and that's assuming you are stationed where an aviation unit is located. The earliest I saw someone get a warrant packet approved was at the 4 year mark. Maybe there are some that do it more quickly. Not saying it can't be done sooner, but most warrants I went to flight school with were either high school to flight school, or E5-E7s.
What is stopping you from applying for the WOFT street-to-seat/highschool to flight school program? Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you couldn't do it and had to enlist first? I would never advise my friends, or my own kids to enlist hoping to get a warrant packet approved. It isn't quick. Or, you can apply off the street as a high school kid and go straight to flight school. And there are guard units right now hurting for pilots. My stick buddy (army speak for sim/flying parter) was 18 and right off the street.
I know zero about your situation, and everyone has reasons for doing stuff, but if I were you, I'd tear up the contract you have, and insist on getting a flight/warrant contract.
Let's assume you drop your packet and get it approved in 3 years from now (though 5 is more conservative and realistic). Then you go to Rucker a year later after you get your packet submitted and accepted. That's 4 years from now. You leave rucker after 1.5 years of flight school (5.5 from now). Your commitment is 6 years from getting wings, although I heard that is going to 8. For arguments sake, lets say its 6...so that's 11.5 years from now. You'll have your GI bill by then, and/or you start doing an RTP, if they are still around in 11-12 years. The soonest you could touch an airline cockpit is 12 years from now. I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15 years depending on the aforementioned variables.
If you go straight to warrant, 1) your pay will be higher, 2) your commitment will end sooner, and 3) you might be able to get to the airlines before the hiring wave slows significantly. If you go guard, all of the above is true, but you can go part time for your commitment and can get an airline job before your flight commitment is up.
If you really want to be an airline pilot, there are programs out there and loans available that can accelerate that process and get you in a jet cockpit a lot faster...like 3-4 years. With regional pay/bonuses, it's doable. You can enlist or go warrant in the guard after you've started that journey if you really want to.
Anyway, hate to try to steer you away from your current course if that's what you want, but I want you to have your eyes wide open about the reality of the path you are trying to go down. If your end-state is airlines, there are quicker ways to get there, and ones that will put you a whole lot better off in the long run seniority wise. And this industry will likely be way different in 12 years.
Good luck whatever you do, and thanks for serving.
What is stopping you from applying for the WOFT street-to-seat/highschool to flight school program? Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you couldn't do it and had to enlist first? I would never advise my friends, or my own kids to enlist hoping to get a warrant packet approved. It isn't quick. Or, you can apply off the street as a high school kid and go straight to flight school. And there are guard units right now hurting for pilots. My stick buddy (army speak for sim/flying parter) was 18 and right off the street.
I know zero about your situation, and everyone has reasons for doing stuff, but if I were you, I'd tear up the contract you have, and insist on getting a flight/warrant contract.
Let's assume you drop your packet and get it approved in 3 years from now (though 5 is more conservative and realistic). Then you go to Rucker a year later after you get your packet submitted and accepted. That's 4 years from now. You leave rucker after 1.5 years of flight school (5.5 from now). Your commitment is 6 years from getting wings, although I heard that is going to 8. For arguments sake, lets say its 6...so that's 11.5 years from now. You'll have your GI bill by then, and/or you start doing an RTP, if they are still around in 11-12 years. The soonest you could touch an airline cockpit is 12 years from now. I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15 years depending on the aforementioned variables.
If you go straight to warrant, 1) your pay will be higher, 2) your commitment will end sooner, and 3) you might be able to get to the airlines before the hiring wave slows significantly. If you go guard, all of the above is true, but you can go part time for your commitment and can get an airline job before your flight commitment is up.
If you really want to be an airline pilot, there are programs out there and loans available that can accelerate that process and get you in a jet cockpit a lot faster...like 3-4 years. With regional pay/bonuses, it's doable. You can enlist or go warrant in the guard after you've started that journey if you really want to.
Anyway, hate to try to steer you away from your current course if that's what you want, but I want you to have your eyes wide open about the reality of the path you are trying to go down. If your end-state is airlines, there are quicker ways to get there, and ones that will put you a whole lot better off in the long run seniority wise. And this industry will likely be way different in 12 years.
Good luck whatever you do, and thanks for serving.
Im actually going in aviation as a black hawk mechanic. Thats why the commitment is so long. I do have some strong LORs so only problem would be chain of command.
My packet is half way there(doing it on my own), I just need to take the SIFT. I scored very high on the ASVAB and high GT score.
Its actually really funny that you pointed out about my recruiter lying to me haha but it is somewhat suspect what he said.
He practically will not let me put in a street to seat. Something about my past misdemeanor.
I mean hes a really great person and helping me out alot with the mos and duty stations whatnot. Hes really going above and beyond trying to help me out, just wont let me go street to seat, He said I can do it after I get to my unit after AIT.
I do want to serve before its too late but the end goal is airlines. wether regional or major, I WANT to fly commercial fixed wing.
05-27-2018, 10:26 PM
#5
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by mikey1029
Thank you for your in depth response.
Im actually going in aviation as a black hawk mechanic. Thats why the commitment is so long. I do have some strong LORs so only problem would be chain of command.
My packet is half way there(doing it on my own), I just need to take the SIFT. I scored very high on the ASVAB and high GT score.
Its actually really funny that you pointed out about my recruiter lying to me haha but it is somewhat suspect what he said.
He practically will not let me put in a street to seat. Something about my past misdemeanor.
I mean hes a really great person and helping me out alot with the mos and duty stations whatnot. Hes really going above and beyond trying to help me out, just wont let me go street to seat, He said I can do it after I get to my unit after AIT.
I do want to serve before its too late but the end goal is airlines. wether regional or major, I WANT to fly commercial fixed wing.
Im actually going in aviation as a black hawk mechanic. Thats why the commitment is so long. I do have some strong LORs so only problem would be chain of command.
My packet is half way there(doing it on my own), I just need to take the SIFT. I scored very high on the ASVAB and high GT score.
Its actually really funny that you pointed out about my recruiter lying to me haha but it is somewhat suspect what he said.
He practically will not let me put in a street to seat. Something about my past misdemeanor.
I mean hes a really great person and helping me out alot with the mos and duty stations whatnot. Hes really going above and beyond trying to help me out, just wont let me go street to seat, He said I can do it after I get to my unit after AIT.
I do want to serve before its too late but the end goal is airlines. wether regional or major, I WANT to fly commercial fixed wing.
The warrants in my class who were prior crew chiefs, who, like you were lied to by the recruiter, had so much animosity toward their recruiter for wasting 3-5 years of their life. Makes their blood boil. And it makes mine do the same. Your first interaction with a noncommissioned officer in the Army is a guy who is lying to you to benefit himself. It’s an effing shame.
Tell him you are going warrant, or you are walking out the door and tearing up your contract. If he says no, demand to talk to his commander, or tell him you are going to the IG (inspector general) for him lying to you. Watch how quickly he helps you out. Or, if you want, pm me his phone number, and I’ll call him with you on the line.
05-27-2018, 11:14 PM
#6
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Posts: 40
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
That scumbag is lying to you. Don’t take his crap. He’s not a “great person” by helping you out a lot, he’s doing what we taxpayers pay him to do. But he isn’t even doing that...he’s lying to you. If he was truly helping you out, he’d help you with your warrant packet. The problem is, warrants don’t help fill his quotas. With all the required training, it takes too long to count for his numbers. That’s why he’s trying to hook you up. Misdemeanor? That won’t prevent you from going straight to warrant.
The warrants in my class who were prior crew chiefs, who, like you were lied to by the recruiter, had so much animosity toward their recruiter for wasting 3-5 years of their life. Makes their blood boil. And it makes mine do the same. Your first interaction with a noncommissioned officer in the Army is a guy who is lying to you to benefit himself. It’s an effing shame.
Tell him you are going warrant, or you are walking out the door and tearing up your contract. If he says no, demand to talk to his commander, or tell him you are going to the IG (inspector general) for him lying to you. Watch how quickly he helps you out. Or, if you want, pm me his phone number, and I’ll call him with you on the line.
The warrants in my class who were prior crew chiefs, who, like you were lied to by the recruiter, had so much animosity toward their recruiter for wasting 3-5 years of their life. Makes their blood boil. And it makes mine do the same. Your first interaction with a noncommissioned officer in the Army is a guy who is lying to you to benefit himself. It’s an effing shame.
Tell him you are going warrant, or you are walking out the door and tearing up your contract. If he says no, demand to talk to his commander, or tell him you are going to the IG (inspector general) for him lying to you. Watch how quickly he helps you out. Or, if you want, pm me his phone number, and I’ll call him with you on the line.
Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.
05-27-2018, 11:32 PM
#7
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by mikey1029
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?
Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.
Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.
Army street to seat - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums
You can google a whole lot more but there’s some good reading on those two. The army doesn’t own you (yet). You aren’t stepping on toes. Ask the recruiter and the commander to show you the regulation stating you can’t apply to or be accepted into the WOFT program. You aren’t stepping on toes. I know you’re close, pumped up, and you’ve come a long way, but you need the pump the brakes. Tell your recruiter if he won’t help you with your warrant application, you’ll find one who will (I still suggest the IG, because these lying clowns need to get spanked). They are not helping you reach your life goals of being an army and airline pilot. They are working against that pathway for you.
There is only 1 person who will EVER look out for you and your career in the army. And that is you. Your recruiter, your team leader, your squad leader, your platoon sergeant, your lieutenant, and your commander may say they are looking out for you, and they may sometimes, and will generally try, but they are worrying about a lot more than your career. Manage your own career. You have to. And that starts at the beginning.
05-27-2018, 11:36 PM
#8
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by mikey1029
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?
Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.
Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.
05-28-2018, 11:31 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Apr 2017
Position: A shack in Kailua
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
And no. Once you ship, your recruiter and your MEPS will not talk to your basic training unit and tell them to make your life hell. They won’t even care about you, except for whether you pass as that affects their numbers. As much as they may make you feel important, you are a number to them. It’s a business deal. They want you to sign up and enlist, bc that is their job to fill enlisted slots. That’s how they are rated as NCOs and officers. You will be treated just like everyone else. If they threaten you with something like that, that’s another IG complaint, but I doubt they would.
Not to take away from Army WOFT. If that's your dream, do it, but don't enlist first unless you truly want to be enlisted and risk never being a pilot, because brother, the army owns you once you ship to Jackson or wherever you are going through BCT and it will never be a guarantee that you'll go to flight school if you go this route. It's not too late to get out of this and apply for WOFT directly or the air national guard. Also, a misdemeanor is nothing. The military is hurting for people, pilots included. If it was a felony, it would depend on the type (there are waivers for a lot of non-violent felonies), but don't let this stop you from going straight to flight school if that is what you really want.
05-28-2018, 11:40 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
To the OP, I don’t know anything about the Army rotor programs but sounds to me like BeatNavy is offering up some pretty good advice here.
I’m 20 years prior Air Force, flew for 15. Before I went to UPT I did a stint in a recruiting unit…I wasn’t actually a recruiter but worked in a support function. I can absolutely tell you it’s 100% about the numbers. The recruiter’s performance is solely judged on how many people they successfully enlist. Military recruiters are professionally trained salesmen…it’s just the way it is.
If you walk into an Air Force recruiting office and tell them you want to be on a boat, they’ll say “sure” and then try to sell you on their programs. They would never walk you next door to the Navy or Coast Guard recruiter. In the same way, I doubt your recruiter would help with this off the street rotor program (since it sounds like he won’t get “credit” for it).
And like Navy said, nothing at all wrong with enlisting (or going Guard, OTS, whatever)….you just want to choose the route that’s best for you. The “service” part comes later when you get short orders for Afghanistan dropped on you when you had other life plans or something like this.
And one more important thing....unless things have changed (but I doubt it) – you CAN still change your mind at this point about enlisting without needing ANY reason at all. You can change your mind up until the day you ship out for boot camp. For obvious reasons, this option is not readily “advertised”. It was called a Delayed Entry Program Discharge…you tell your recruiter you’ve changed your mind and you don't want to enlist. He'll schedule a time for you to go in and see him, sign paperwork (2mins) and then, you’re free to pursue other avenues. Probably not a bad idea to bring a parent or some kind of mentor with you for support. Just something to keep in mind as an option. This did happen from time to time during my stint in recruiting.
Happy Memorial day bud & best of luck…feel free to PM or better yet take Navy up on his offer for help.
I’m 20 years prior Air Force, flew for 15. Before I went to UPT I did a stint in a recruiting unit…I wasn’t actually a recruiter but worked in a support function. I can absolutely tell you it’s 100% about the numbers. The recruiter’s performance is solely judged on how many people they successfully enlist. Military recruiters are professionally trained salesmen…it’s just the way it is.
If you walk into an Air Force recruiting office and tell them you want to be on a boat, they’ll say “sure” and then try to sell you on their programs. They would never walk you next door to the Navy or Coast Guard recruiter. In the same way, I doubt your recruiter would help with this off the street rotor program (since it sounds like he won’t get “credit” for it).
And like Navy said, nothing at all wrong with enlisting (or going Guard, OTS, whatever)….you just want to choose the route that’s best for you. The “service” part comes later when you get short orders for Afghanistan dropped on you when you had other life plans or something like this.
And one more important thing....unless things have changed (but I doubt it) – you CAN still change your mind at this point about enlisting without needing ANY reason at all. You can change your mind up until the day you ship out for boot camp. For obvious reasons, this option is not readily “advertised”. It was called a Delayed Entry Program Discharge…you tell your recruiter you’ve changed your mind and you don't want to enlist. He'll schedule a time for you to go in and see him, sign paperwork (2mins) and then, you’re free to pursue other avenues. Probably not a bad idea to bring a parent or some kind of mentor with you for support. Just something to keep in mind as an option. This did happen from time to time during my stint in recruiting.
Happy Memorial day bud & best of luck…feel free to PM or better yet take Navy up on his offer for help.
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