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Old 04-02-2018, 05:48 PM
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Hi,
I’m approaching the end of my Air Force pilot commitment and looking for intelligent/candid advice as I prepare to embark on a career in the airlines where my goal is to get to the majors. I was an aircraft commander in C-17 where I accrued a total of 1,350 hours (653 PIC, 464 SIC, 233 OTH).

1. Due to my low hours in the C-17, I imagine I will have to fly for the regionals first to build 121 PIC time. If I perform well, how long would it realistically take to build enough quality time to get the majors? How many hours until someone like me would be considered competitive?

2. Do Air Force pilots with global mobility experience (i.e. C-17) have any sort of advantage in getting to the majors?

3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?

Thanx
Bruh

Last edited by Bruh; 04-02-2018 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
Hi,
I’m approaching the end of my Air Force pilot commitment and looking for intelligent/candid advice as I prepare to embark on a career in the airlines where my goal is to get to the majors. I was an aircraft commander in C-17 where I accrued a total of 1,350 hours (653 PIC, 464 SIC, 233 OTH).

1. Due to my low hours in the C-17, I imagine I will have to fly for the regionals first to build 121 PIC time. If I perform well, how long would it realistically take to build enough quality time to get the majors? How many hours until someone like me would be considered competitive?
I see Navy helo guys from the reserves spending 1-2 years at regionals right now. That would get you to 2K-3K TT which is still low for mobility pilots for the top-tier. You would be competitive for second-tier majors pretty quickly. If you upgrade and get 1000 121 TPIC, you should be good for anybody.

1300 is a bit low for mobility, that's typical fighter numbers. Was there an issue along the way?

Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
2. Do Air Force pilots with global mobility experience (i.e. C-17) have any sort of advantage in getting to the majors?
All military have an advantage over civilian track. There are a LOT of variables, and variability between airlines, but all else being equal many airlines would prioritize applicants like this:

Astronaut
Fighters
Heavies
Helos
Civilian 121
Civilian 135
Civilian 91

Again very broad generalization.

Military + 121 seems to be a very good recipe right now.

Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?
Regional. Pick one with a fast upgrade. You may not need it, but better to have it available. You could also bum in the guard instead of regionals, but that would take longer and wouldn't punch any tickets you don't already have (other than network).
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:19 PM
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Rickair,
Solid info - thank you!

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
1300 is a bit low for mobility, that's typical fighter numbers. Was there an issue along the way?
I left the mobility world to fly RPAs (MQ-1s & MQ-9s).

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Regional. Pick one with a fast upgrade. You may not need it, but better to have it available.
I’ve seen several posts now mentioning pilots who move to the majors from the regionals as soon as they can. Once hired by a major, is it easy for pilots to drop the regionals and switch? That is, are there not contractual flying commitments for the regionals like in the military?
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:53 PM
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See PM this date.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:30 PM
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is OP for real ? these are Airline 101 posts his mil buddies in his network should all be able to answer
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
I left the mobility world to fly RPAs (MQ-1s & MQ-9s)
Yeah you're low time. Regionals to build time, especially if you're not current, which is what it sounds like. Unfortunately its SIC time, but good experience.
As was mentioned, you need PIC time. What's your plan for that? Go fly white jets, plenty of flight time to be had there!
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?
As you speculated (and has been said), your shortest and most highly effective route is going to be through the regionals, for a combination of reasons. You're simply not in the running for any "career destination" with your current experience. The combination of your military heavy time and 121 experience will, however, make you quite competitive.

The question of "how long do I have to be at the regionals" is the tough one to answer as it depends highly on which regional you go to (how many hours will you fly, and how long is the upgrade time) and which major you want to end up with (especially those that have a 1000-hour PIC desired hurdle).

Your first hurdle is just going to be 1500 hours so you can have an unrestricted ATP, as none of the major jobs are going to give you a look until you have that on your application. That's going to require about 6 months at a regional -- assuming a 2-3 month training cycle and a 100-hour IOE/consolidation period that will probably span about 2 months. A month or two of flying the line and you'll be over the line easily. Make sure you get your ATP unrestricted once you get the 1500 (http://www.sheppardair.com/download/...estriction.pdf).

From there, you're in a situation where the more experience you get, the more attractive you're going to be. It is an incremental thing, and as notes, somewhere in the 2-3000 hour range is probably the sweet spot. Once you're on the line, and if you're working at a properly-staffed regional, figure on about 80 hours per month. You can do more than that by picking up trips on your days off. So, maybe 600-800 hours your first year (since training will soak up a few months out of that year) and 800-900 your second year (again, depending on how hard you want to work and how hard your airline wants to work you).

You don't "need" more PIC time to get to a major airline job, but it will certainly help. If you don't have the job you want when your number comes up to bid for Captain at the regionals, do it -- it will look good on your app, and every additional hour of TPIC will make your application just that much more likely to be called. Upgrade times will vary regional-to-regional, and the current timeline may not be the same timeline when it is your turn up at bat.

Bottom line, I'd be financially and emotionally prepared for 1-3 years at the regionals.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by F15andMD11 View Post
As was mentioned, you need PIC time. What's your plan for that? Go fly white jets, plenty of flight time to be had there!
You’re right, I definitely do. Still looking at all my options. An Envoy pilot recruiter said I’d be in the running for a direct-entry captain. As for vanilla jets, I’m not willing to spend any extra time in the AF beyond my UPT commitment.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruh View Post
An Envoy pilot recruiter said I’d be in the running for a direct-entry captain.
I'd be careful about going directly in as a Captain straight from the military.

Yes, sounds good....better pay, getting PIC right from the start.

However, there are risks going this route that you should mind, especially the ones that involve checkride busts or FAA violations.

121 flying isn't particularly difficult, but it is *different* than military flying. Even for someone who is current, and well attuned to the regulatory differences, there is a lot to be learned about 121 flying as an FO. To be sure, most of that learning is done after a short couple months of flying the line, but that learning curve exists none the less. As an FO, you are learning the ropes while another guy's name is at the bottom of the flight release.

Jumping right in to the Captain's seat without any background in 121 flying, and even jumping into Captain training without being a current and proficient pilot, will be a challenge that is probably not worth the risk. You don't want to also add a chackride pink slip to that AirlineApps instead of a new type rating.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hacker15e View Post
The question of "how long do I have to be at the regionals" is the tough one to answer as it depends highly on which regional you go to ... and which major you want to end up with (especially those that have a 1000-hour PIC desired hurdle).
Thanks for the detailed response and Sheppard tip. I agree and think the regionals are going to be the best option for me to get competitive for the majors. At this stage I think AA is where I would like to be eventually based on their hubs and multiple international routes.

Originally Posted by Hacker15e View Post
You don't "need" more PIC time to get to a major airline job, but it will certainly help. If you don't have the job you want when your number comes up to bid for Captain at the regionals, do it -- it will look good on your app, and every additional hour of TPIC will make your application just that much more likely to be called ... Bottom line, I'd be financially and emotionally prepared for 1-3 years at the regionals.
Good point, I’ll try to pick a regional I can live with for several years.
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