Military Crashes and Safety Record
#1
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Military Crashes and Safety Record
https://patch.com/georgia/savannah/plane-reportedly-down-port-wentworth-near-savannah
It seems lately there has been a slew of military airplane crashes. For all the millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on pilot training, maintenance, and equipment, I am wondering what underlying causes of these are? I am not talking about combat realted accidents. Can any current or ex-military pilots shed light on this? Also, it doesn’t seem, at least in the media, it gets the same attention as passenger airlines. Or cargo.
It seems lately there has been a slew of military airplane crashes. For all the millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on pilot training, maintenance, and equipment, I am wondering what underlying causes of these are? I am not talking about combat realted accidents. Can any current or ex-military pilots shed light on this? Also, it doesn’t seem, at least in the media, it gets the same attention as passenger airlines. Or cargo.
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
Not much hard data to support conclusions but because we are an up/out organization many of us suspect it’s the 2nd/3rd order consequence of under funding an entire generation of pilots. During sequestration we had pilots flying hours at the bare minimum of safety. Those pilots eventually moved on to be IPs and then field grade Majors/LCDRs. Though all “qualified” their body of work and experience is not equal to their predecessors. It’s not uncommon for Commanding Officers to only have 1500-2000 hours of flight time now but when I started out - 300 hours per year was a good target....now it’s 100-150 averaged over 15 years.
#3
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 131
Not much hard data to support conclusions but because we are an up/out organization many of us suspect it’s the 2nd/3rd order consequence of under funding an entire generation of pilots. During sequestration we had pilots flying hours at the bare minimum of safety. Those pilots eventually moved on to be IPs and then field grade Majors/LCDRs. Though all “qualified” their body of work and experience is not equal to their predecessors. It’s not uncommon for Commanding Officers to only have 1500-2000 hours of flight time now but when I started out - 300 hours per year was a good target....now it’s 100-150 averaged over 15 years.
It should be noted, however, that the things asked of military aircrews is much more dangerous than civilian IFR flying. It should be expected to see more accidents while doing precarious things in an aircraft. Recently though we have seen far more military accidents than normal. I am curious to see the cause of this latest C130 crash. God bless them all.
#4
Might be pilot training hours funding, or it might be a lot of other things related to the strain on the services over the last 15 years... material, cultural/moral, attrition.
DoD knows it needs to reset and recapitalize. But it looks to me like that budgeting needs to account for sustained, indefinite low-intensity conflict. We used to be in the habit of going into four-alarm-fire mode when actual warfighting had to be done... that worked OK for a few months, but not years or decades.
DoD knows it needs to reset and recapitalize. But it looks to me like that budgeting needs to account for sustained, indefinite low-intensity conflict. We used to be in the habit of going into four-alarm-fire mode when actual warfighting had to be done... that worked OK for a few months, but not years or decades.
#5
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Swimming, or drowning, depends on the day.
Posts: 106
Might be pilot training hours funding, or it might be a lot of other things related to the strain on the services over the last 15 years... material, cultural/moral, attrition.
DoD knows it needs to reset and recapitalize. But it looks to me like that budgeting needs to account for sustained, indefinite low-intensity conflict. We used to be in the habit of going into four-alarm-fire mode when actual warfighting had to be done... that worked OK for a few months, but not years or decades.
DoD knows it needs to reset and recapitalize. But it looks to me like that budgeting needs to account for sustained, indefinite low-intensity conflict. We used to be in the habit of going into four-alarm-fire mode when actual warfighting had to be done... that worked OK for a few months, but not years or decades.
#6
The DoD won't admit to it, and it's too early to draw conclusions, but those of us invested in this game do recognize the greening out of the squadrons and the logical progression towards higher hull losses. The chickens will slowly come home to roost, at the clip we're going.
#7
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 37
As one of our monitors wrote, “The Marine Corps doesn’t care about your qualifications, designations or flight experience. They care about your green side” Physical fitness score, FITREP perfection, picture, and other “well rounded” qualities that have little to do with your MOS credibility and more to do with your ability to promote.
#8
As an Army pilot with almost 20 years of IP, examiner, and Safety officer time I have seen/experienced great change with military aviation culture. Today's O-4/O-5s are more concerned with career KD time and PowerPoint metrics (e.g., flu shots and late OERs) versus having a safe/proficient flying force. Most WOs are counting the months, days, hours, and minutes to punch-out time. It really is a travesty.
#9
Not unlike the Navy PAC fleet with their surface combatants collisions and groundings. They seem to have forgotten the basics. How does a surface combatant with Aegis radar, sonar, lookouts, a Combat Information Center, and watch stander son the bridge run into a container ship that can only do 12-14 Knots flat-out?
For that matter, how do you ACCIDENTALLY upload six nukes and fly them from Minot to Barkesdale without the crew even noticing they have six nukes under their wing? Damn, it's stenciled on the warhead.
There are a lot if problems in the military right now for a lot of reasons, and inadequate resources is only one of them.
For that matter, how do you ACCIDENTALLY upload six nukes and fly them from Minot to Barkesdale without the crew even noticing they have six nukes under their wing? Damn, it's stenciled on the warhead.
There are a lot if problems in the military right now for a lot of reasons, and inadequate resources is only one of them.
#10
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,907
https://patch.com/georgia/savannah/plane-reportedly-down-port-wentworth-near-savannah
It seems lately there has been a slew of military airplane crashes. For all the millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on pilot training, maintenance, and equipment, I am wondering what underlying causes of these are? I am not talking about combat realted accidents. Can any current or ex-military pilots shed light on this? Also, it doesn’t seem, at least in the media, it gets the same attention as passenger airlines. Or cargo.
It seems lately there has been a slew of military airplane crashes. For all the millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on pilot training, maintenance, and equipment, I am wondering what underlying causes of these are? I am not talking about combat realted accidents. Can any current or ex-military pilots shed light on this? Also, it doesn’t seem, at least in the media, it gets the same attention as passenger airlines. Or cargo.
The C-130 that just crashed was 60 years old:
9 Puerto Ricans killed in final flight of 60-year-old National Guard plane - Chicago Tribune
From eyewitness accounts (notoriously inaccurate) the plane entered a steep bank and crashed just after takeoff. Sounds like wing structural failure. That happened many years ago to a Little Rock based C-130. For quite a while we had restrictions on maneuvers until all the cracked wing 130's were fixed. They called them "Level 1" and "Level 2" restrictions.
Edit: just found video of the crash, not quite as sure about what I just wrote above:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/us/mi...gia/index.html
Last edited by AirBear; 05-02-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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