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Future airline hiring wave

Old 05-28-2018, 12:40 PM
  #11  
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Good advice above.

1)I knew a former recruiter downrange and he admitted when it came to recruits it was "Fire and Forget" once they headed to basic. Not his problem any more. Just the reality.

2) Keep your eye on a program called "Forces to Flyers" it's pretty new but it is planned to take veterans and turn them into pilots on the civilian side. Like I said it's new so details to be worked out.

3) See number 2. I have opined that young potential recruits are now closing on a decision point in the hiring wave not unlike what you are facing. Forces to Flyers is touted to help reduce the pilot shortage and concurrently reduce demand on the military aviators the airlines seek. I see it as no win for the military. I offer a path to the airlines for vets so if airlines are my ultimate goal why would I not do a "relatively" (yes everything in the military is relative) quick 4 year enlistment followed by 2 years of flight training and off to my flying career or do a military aviation track with 2 years training followed by a 10 year ADSC before you even think of a seniority number with an airline. 6 versus 12 years. Just something to consider.

4) Take a mentor that's military savvy with you to the recruiter

Good Luck and Thanks for stepping up.
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Old 05-28-2018, 02:39 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by mikey1029 View Post
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?

No. Not only no, but eff no. Many of us who have served have serious issues with the way enlisted recruiting is structured, and the way some recruiters operate. Like beatnavy said it really chaps my hide that this sort of blatant self-service is the first interaction which many new service members have with the military.


No recruiter would ever dare try to follow up with any command to harass a recruit. If they did it to one of my people there would be a court martial convened (I am someone who can make that happen, and am probably representative of others).
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Old 05-28-2018, 05:51 PM
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I would seriously consider going the USAF Guard route. In some locations you can attend college in the same city where the guard base is located. Try to get a degree in something that is actually useful, such as civil engineering. After you have your degree the Guard unit will most likely sponsor you for a UPT slot. You may decide flying for the guard is enough flying and pass on the airline career altogether. A friend of mine did just that becoming a commander of a KC-135 squadron and working full-time as an engineer. Best of luck to you.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:35 PM
  #14  
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I'm not a pilot, I just started flight training for a third career. I was enlisted ground active and reserve. Funny thing is I deployed more as a reservist than on active duty.

Your recruiter lied to you my man. Nothing new, you're just meat for the grinder in their eyes. It's really hard to finish shool on active duty as an enlisted man. Your command and immediate supervisors have to work with you. Quite frankly this usually does not happen at all if ever. Depending on your mos and needs of the military you will most likely be backfilling for units about to deploy or on workups for deployments. I'm not really sure about army aviation side but in the marines on deployments or work ups pre deployment it's 16 to 20 hour days every day. You will not have the time nor inclination to open a book. If operational tempo really ratchets up for any reason you might be clearing houses with grunts. Early OIF/OEF we had generator mechanics, cooks, supply guys, airframe guys, fuelers, basically anyone that wasnt busy at the time hop into hmmv's and clear buildings. Your wants and needs will always be secondary to that of the military. If you think just because I'm in aviation I won't be on the street? I can tell you for a fact that is not the case.

If you have the gpa and are relatively fit (1st class pft with ease) I would try to delay a year and see if you can get the senator recommendations for an appointment to one of the service academies or a rotc program with an aviation designation.

If not I would delay and apply for woft directly as many have mentioned street to seat.

Some have already mentioned this as well find a spot at an air guard unit as a reservist find a full time job that allows you to finish school then apply for a commission. Get an accounting degree or nursing something practical that also is a back up career. The military and airlines require any degree but get something you can fall back on in case airlines take a hit again.

If you really want to fly for the military I would go through the eye exams first and make sure you are eligible. The military tests for vision etc are much more stringent than faa requirements.

As far as recruiters go, get everything in writing. They have to give you a copy of the contract. First when you request a copy they'll give you a bunch of numbers and letters it's like binary code. They have to give you a copy that is legible in plain English. If they do not, get something in writing saying that they refuse to give you a copy in plain English. They are not your friend. They do not care about you. You are just a number to them.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:09 PM
  #15  
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THANK YOU ALL for your helpful and informative replies!!

I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.

I mean whatever I can do to fly in the near future is what I want to do.
Are there any other routes in the Army that i can pursue?

I was originially going to attend a flight school but was not approved for a loan and my whole family lives overseas so i was looking for schools with dorms such as ATP. rejected by both wells fargo and sallie mae.
So thats why I began the process to become military.

The FORCES TO FLYERS sounds like it would be a good option.

Can someone explain how that works? Is it full flight training?
How many years have you have to have served?


Im totally willing to bear through my first contract If it would pay for flight training after I get out.

I would be just as happy to be a ARMY pilot as well. And eventually transition to fixed wing.

BUT I hear everyone, Im going to try and push to submit my Warrant packet. I already have a lot of the required checks on the list.

Once again Im so grateful for all your support and guidance!
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:54 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by mikey1029 View Post
THANK YOU ALL for your helpful and informative replies!!

I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.

I mean whatever I can do to fly in the near future is what I want to do.
Are there any other routes in the Army that i can pursue?

I was originially going to attend a flight school but was not approved for a loan and my whole family lives overseas so i was looking for schools with dorms such as ATP. rejected by both wells fargo and sallie mae.
So thats why I began the process to become military.

The FORCES TO FLYERS sounds like it would be a good option.

Can someone explain how that works? Is it full flight training?
How many years have you have to have served?


Im totally willing to bear through my first contract If it would pay for flight training after I get out.

I would be just as happy to be a ARMY pilot as well. And eventually transition to fixed wing.

BUT I hear everyone, Im going to try and push to submit my Warrant packet. I already have a lot of the required checks on the list.

Once again Im so grateful for all your support and guidance!
There’s also the American Airlines Academy that just started. Their loan is through “Discover Loans” and it’s supposed to be geared towards people like you who may not have a co-signer. The ATP loan providers are more stringent because anyone can go into the ATP program and if they flunk out, they flunk out, there is no vetting process. Looking at the AA Academy, they seem to place a big emphasis on interviewing you and making sure that you’ll stick around to finish the training and thus to pay back the loan. This leads me to believe that perhaps their algorithm for loan authorization might be friendlier, but idk. Just an idea.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:17 AM
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As others have already mentioned I would not leave for basic without first exploring the WOFT option. That is how I came into the Army 7 years ago. From the time I left for basic to graduation from flight school was 2 years, AH64 course at the time was 6 months and there were still quite a few "bubbles" in training where you were stagnant. After that there is a 6 year commitment for completion of flight school, in total I will do 8 years and 8 months (took the ADSO for Instructor Pilot Course).

If your end goal is simply to be a pilot I would explore all other options before enlisting. There is absolutely no guarantee that you will get to go to flight school just because you are a maintainer. However you will no without a doubt thats where you are going if you do the street to seat(WOFT) program.

I would look into a guard unit as well, I believe there is still tuition assistance/GI bill with the guard. You can use that to help with going to an FAR Part 141 credited training school and be working on your CIV flight training as well as a MIL trained pilot. Then you would only need 750 hours total time between Military and civilian IOT qualify for the rATP and get hired onto a regional.

The time is now to get into the airlines or start working towards the flight time you need to get in. Losing 8 years to Active Duty will cost you a lot in terms of seniority and potentially retirement/401k benefits especially considering you are already 27.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:20 AM
  #18  
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If you make it to Army flight school, go the C-12 or Fixed Wing for life track. You will have everything you need to go to the regionals after your first 6 years and will most likely have the hours to go to a Major. When I went to army flight school you could not get the C12 but now you can get it as a W1. It is your best bet if you want to do 1 tour and be done.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:57 AM
  #19  
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Forces to Flyers.https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3518 Like anything associated with Uncle Sugar make sure you read the fine print. Good Luck

Last edited by aeroengineer; 05-29-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mikey1029 View Post

I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.
I’d say, generally speaking, you’re probably right regarding your age / Air Force options. There are still possibilities with the guard/reserves but it sounds like this off the street WOFT program IS the program for you.

So I think the first decision you need to make is are you going to enlist right now as an aviation mechanic if it comes to that (and it sounds like it is coming to that)? While you weigh this decision you would need to assume that you aren’t going to flight training during this 6 year period. And, with that in mind, you have to ask yourself would you be “ok” with that? Obviously I don’t know you, but from what you’ve written I’d say the answer is “No”.

With that I’d continue to ride your recruiter (politely / persistently) to get the WOFT application in. But if it doesn’t get done, don’t enlist. Just be honest with the recruiter at that point…I can give you some baseline phrases to help with this conversation if you want.

But if this all fails, find another recruiter, in a different town maybe, and keep pursuing the WOFT . While you’re working on that consider more traditional civilian flight training avenues, such as… save money, get PP on side, save more money, get IFR rating, etc. until you get CFI. You might be too old for ROTC etc. but you’re not even close to being too old to have a nice career flying.
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