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New bonuses NOT stemming the exodus

Old 03-21-2019, 09:32 AM
  #1  
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Default New bonuses NOT stemming the exodus

I think it's a matter of too little and too late. They didn't lead turn this problem adequately. The loss of bases and military training airspace from one BRAC too many probably didn't help either. Or the political decision to close some of the "nicer" bases whose surrounding economy could absorb the hit (think Williams AFB in Tempe) while maintaining those the sole support of a relatively isolated rural economy (think Laughlin AFB in Del Rio). Or the operational decision to assign guys who wanted to fly aircraft to pilot drones.

The military has spent over a decade digging this hole. It's gonna be tough for them to dig their way out of it.



https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...k-up-slightly/

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/ne...e-84366bb0491b

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...continues.html
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:53 AM
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Even if the bonuses match airline pay, the airlines will pay more, for longer. And QOL too. Perfect storm. Military could have been a little smarter (ie less arrogant) but it wouldn't have changed much. No way can the mil be a cake job like airlines.

No real way to win that, they may end up transferring squadrons into the reserve so the only available pilots can fly them on their days off.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
New bonuses NOT stemming the exodus

LOL and in other news, water is wet.




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Old 03-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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They can't recruit their way out of it either.

Not enough training bandwidth.

Not enough young people with aptitude, inclination, who can pass a PFT and a whiz quiz. The ones that can do all that aren't dumb... civilian track and a big six seniority number is a very bright shiny object. I was always hell-bent on career military service as a kid, but today even I would have been just bright enough to join the guard instead.

Not to mention they need to retain some mid & senior leadership.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
They can't recruit their way out of it either.

Not enough training bandwidth.
Indeed. Back in WWII the military was turning out 50,000 pilots a year. The Army Air Corps had over 100 training facilities in the state of California alone. Now there are only a very few air training bases. And every graduate they recycle as a FAIP is just one more loss to the operational side.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Not to mention they need to retain some mid & senior leadership.
They’ve had some major failures there as well.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...op-misconduct/

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...plea-deal.html

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-attempts.html

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...igation-finds/

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr...investigation/
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:18 AM
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I left a full-time ANG job for one of the Big 3 and couldn't be happier. I've worked 4 days on reserve with the company in the last 3 weeks. I don't have to get up every morning at 0515 to get to the unit like I did before. I'm not dragging ass everyday after putting in a 10-12hr day at work doing mundane BS and trying to put out the fire du jour. I get to enjoy my cup of coffee just about every morning in my office reading the news on the computer in my jammies. I get to walk the kids to/from the bus stop. I get to go for a run after they're off to school. I get to run errands during the week when most people are at work and there is noone in the stores. I get to actually go up and down every isle in Lowes and take it all in without having to entertain the wife and kids that don't want to be there. I get to work on projects that I never had time for before. I don't have to pay someone to cut my lawn and do my yardwork. I'm not putting 60+ miles on my car 22 days out of the month. Oh and when I do go to work.... I get to the airport an hour before departure. Do some people watching as I roll my 22 behind me. Get a nice hot caffeinated beverage of my choice. Walk to my gate and proceed to do the easiest preflight ever while the PAX are getting on. Noone bothering me about a filling data into PowerPoint, answering MICT questions, etc. The door closes, we do our thing, the door opens and we either do it all over again or head to a hotel. No email building up by the minute while I am flying. No worrying about how I am going to get fire du jour put out by go-home time so my wife doesn't get ****ed off I am staying late yet again.

Yeah, I get some honey-do lists now. Big deal. A very small price to pay for a much better QOL. I sent the wife back to work. It's actually nice having her see the other side of things. Not that being a stay-at-home parent is easy, but I can tell she definitely realizes that working a full-time job while juggling a family has it's own challenges.

Again, I was a full-time ART and it was a no-brainer. I can only imagine if I was active duty. $35,000 is an insult and if you've been living within your means and putting money aside for a rainy day, take that leap of faith. QOL aside, passing up $35k a year now will earn you hundeds of thousands, if not a million plus $ later.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:03 AM
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I compared my earnings as an O-1 to O-3 in the 10 years I was in the Navy vs civilian airline pay. Granted I wasn't a naval aviator or NFO so I didn't get the aviation incentive pays, but I did get the $50k career continuation incentive at year 5 once I completed my active duty service obligation to stay for years 5-10 and complete department head tours.

But finishing up my taxes this year, my earnings as a narrowbody captain last year (one year) at a low tier airline equalled the entirety of my pay that I earned as an officer (10 years.) I didn't have to work as hard and deal with the administrative bs for that 1 year that I did for those 10.

So it's hard for the military to compete with that.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TankerDriver View Post
.... I'm not dragging ass everyday after putting in a 10-12hr day at work doing mundane BS and trying to put out the fire du jour...
^^^ This. Military aviation gives pilots a chance to do things they would never get to do on the civil side. However, when that flying becomes a part of your job rather than the focus of your job, the crap starts to outweigh the satisfaction. If the military hopes to retain pilots, they will never do it based off of pay. The pay needs no be good, but more importantly, the job needs to be exciting and rewarding.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dbflyer View Post
^^^ This. Military aviation gives pilots a chance to do things they would never get to do on the civil side. However, when that flying becomes a part of your job rather than the focus of your job, the crap starts to outweigh the satisfaction. If the military hopes to retain pilots, they will never do it based off of pay. The pay needs no be good, but more importantly, the job needs to be exciting and rewarding.
Commanders, in efforts to make themselves look good, have been reluctant to push back on this stuff and it has cost the Air Force. Noone wants to grow a pair and stand up for their people. Most of the O-6's today don't realize their strength, especially in numbers, but when they all wuss out behind their own desks, nothing will ever get fixed. Instead, it takes people voting with their feet.

This isn't just an issue on active duty. I will admit that life is better as a traditional, only because I don't have to be in that environment 3 weeks out of the month, but the job for me at this point is a retirement. Nothing more, nothing less. I could stop flying in the military tomorrow and not shed a tear. I've had some real good times and have met some great people, but I am at the point of no return with my plummeting give-a-**** level and my lack of hope that things will get any better anytime soon. The days of 28 year TOS O-5's in the ARC is long gone.
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:26 AM
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Just a side note to the articles linked above.

I really dislike when the author uses the term "poaching" pilots from active duty.
Top military officials said the private sector, specifically commercial airlines, is poaching their pilots
Poaching infers something illegal and/or nefarious. This could not be further from the truth. These pilots (me included) honorably served our commitments that were expected. We did not depart Active Duty under shady circumstances.

I am quick to correct an author or someone who uses this term. It makes Active Duty appear as the victim, when they are actually the assailant.

Spread the word please.

Fly safe y'all.

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