Army Rotorheads at the 'Big 6'
07-09-2019, 06:54 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Definitely a different perspective for Navy RW, I've seen a lot of success there, quick trip to the regional then off to the bigs.
Sounds like the issue is FW UPT training... USAF and sea services get that, army generally doesn't. Many navy RW also serve FW IP tours.
Sounds like the issue is FW UPT training... USAF and sea services get that, army generally doesn't. Many navy RW also serve FW IP tours.
07-09-2019, 07:05 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Definitely a different perspective for Navy RW, I've seen a lot of success there, quick trip to the regional then off to the bigs.
Sounds like the issue is FW UPT training... USAF and sea services get that, army generally doesn't. Many navy RW also serve FW IP tours.
Sounds like the issue is FW UPT training... USAF and sea services get that, army generally doesn't. Many navy RW also serve FW IP tours.
07-09-2019, 07:09 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by UnprotectdPilot
Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. Unless hiring practices change with downward pressure on hiring minimums, military helicopter flight time currently has little to no value to any highly sought after career airline job. At best, it’s a “veteran” block check on the resume right now. I feel like some of these RTPs and affiliated groups are selling the dream that they’ll be at the Big 6 within a few years because of the elusive “pilot shortage” when that won’t be the case for most.
07-09-2019, 07:09 AM
#14
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Posts: 570
Originally Posted by UnprotectdPilot
Not even total time? Ouch.
Alaska will count half, up to 1000 hours, toward total. The rest, as far as I know, will count it toward total, but you still need your FW turbine time.
Despite the military flying, I have no illusion of moving up anytime soon. Working on my Master's, have ongoing volunteer experience, submitted my bid for CA and will move up as soon as able, zero failures/violations of any kind. The only way I think the Army rotor flying helps is after I get my 1000 TPIC when the legacies are looking at everyone with 1000 TPIC and I have that military flight experience and they don't. Time will tell.
Last edited by Taco280AI; 07-09-2019 at 07:26 AM.
07-09-2019, 07:13 AM
#15
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Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Voski
That’s an excellent point because the training source does seem to be a discriminator. I’d even venture to say that Navy pilots do a better job networking because they have more alumni from the jet side already flying at the majors.
) network exists in most instances - not like the Army guys wouldn’t or couldn’t. Also Rickair’s point is accurate - beginning FW and getting the FW instructor tour definitely makes a totally different playing field from Army helo.
07-09-2019, 09:10 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by UnprotectdPilot
I was following their public page and RTAG Nation group closely and have to disagree. The only mil helo guys at the legacies in that group also had significant Army turboprop and/or jet time (the Dash, C-12, UC-35) which qualifies them as mil fixed-wing pilots. I think it’s dishonest they were advertising rotorheads going to AA or United when they had at least 1,000 Army FW TPIC.
The only helo guys there that had zero Army FW time in the group were at carriers like JetBlue, Allegiant, Spirit, or Frontier.
The only helo guys there that had zero Army FW time in the group were at carriers like JetBlue, Allegiant, Spirit, or Frontier.
07-09-2019, 02:47 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 208
I don't fly a trip anymore that I don't have some Army guy call me out because of my US Army lanyard. We are everywhere!
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
07-09-2019, 04:40 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by ApachePhil
I don't fly a trip anymore that I don't have some Army guy call me out because of my US Army lanyard. We are everywhere!
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
07-09-2019, 06:06 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by ApachePhil
I don't fly a trip anymore that I don't have some Army guy call me out because of my US Army lanyard. We are everywhere!
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
Are you (or anyone for that matter) going to get a call from the "Big 6 having only US Army Helicopter time? NO!
Are you going to have to go to a regional, get a FW transition, get 2000+ professional FW hours and probably some FWTPIC time to get the call? YOUBETCHA!
Will some guys (that do all the above) never get the call? YES.
Will there be unicorns that get hired without a degree? Without FWTPIC? With <1500 FW Hours? YES. What are the odds? Just a WAG, but I'd say 1:5,000 legacy hires.
Will having RW IP/IE/SP/MP/ME, ASO qualifications make you stand out? YES!
Has there been hiring in the last 25 years like we are seeing now? NO!
Hiring at the majors/legacies is cyclical. They are hiring like crazy right now, and it appears they will be hiring at this pace for the next 5+ years. A lucky few will have been hired at the beginning of this wave (2014-2015) and those hired in 2025 will be lucky too, but not as lucky as those hired early. Seniority is king.
If you're on the fence, don't stay there long. If you aren't making strides to become hireable don't give free rent in your head to those that are busting their a$$ to get hired. Even tho there is a pilot shortage, the "Big 6" don't/won't have a shortage of applicants that have degrees and professional FW time. IOW they are not going to need to lower their standards, much.
ApachePhil
AH-64, MH-60L (DAP), UH-60, C-12, B737
IP, IE, SP, MP, Legacy FO
Yes, they should go in with eyes open and understand the negatives, but the QOL of airline flying blows away the Army. No chicken plate in 120 degrees. The worst hotel blows away the best tent. No more TRATS or MRE’s. 🤮 No General Order 1. Or JRTC. Or NTC.
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