DAL 2010 USERRA Letter
08-03-2019, 08:26 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by crewdawg
For us, it's based on the type of order you are on. On the last few "deployments," our choice has been 12304b (invol) or 12301d (vol) orders. I have found the source document provided by our commanders/personnel during our spinup to our last trip, I'd be happy to send it to you. It clearly shows that 12304b (involuntary Combatant Command Mission Support) does not meet eligibility requirements for Post 9/11 GI Bill. In fact, wrt to TAMP, early retirement credit and GI Bill, they're treated the same as AT orders.
Lucky you. We essentially get the dubious choice of picking the red pill or blue pill. They put the carrot in front of voluntary because then it doesn't count for dwell purposes. So they get you for this deployment, but you remain eligible for later invols. Anyway, same document mentioned above, shows invol orders are not eligible for early retirement credit.
Supposedly they're "fixing" it, but the checks been in the mail for over 5 years...
In my ANG fighter squadron, there isn't a single pilot on continuous orders that are USERRA exempt. Even with an alert mission on base (O.N.E.), we have zero exempt orders. But sure stat tours at NGB and various other random assignments may get you exempt orders.
Honestly, wrt to exemption, I couldn't care less for me. I have have absolutely zero desire to go back on full time orders for anything other than squadron TDYs and our deployments. But I can see a problem looming as many of our guys are running out of USERRA time not the mention the desire to put up with all the added BS that continues to stack up. Basically, as with many other things in life, the Commanders up high, don't see it as a problem because we're "plugging the holes in the damn," for now...
Lucky you. We essentially get the dubious choice of picking the red pill or blue pill. They put the carrot in front of voluntary because then it doesn't count for dwell purposes. So they get you for this deployment, but you remain eligible for later invols. Anyway, same document mentioned above, shows invol orders are not eligible for early retirement credit.
Supposedly they're "fixing" it, but the checks been in the mail for over 5 years...
In my ANG fighter squadron, there isn't a single pilot on continuous orders that are USERRA exempt. Even with an alert mission on base (O.N.E.), we have zero exempt orders. But sure stat tours at NGB and various other random assignments may get you exempt orders.
Honestly, wrt to exemption, I couldn't care less for me. I have have absolutely zero desire to go back on full time orders for anything other than squadron TDYs and our deployments. But I can see a problem looming as many of our guys are running out of USERRA time not the mention the desire to put up with all the added BS that continues to stack up. Basically, as with many other things in life, the Commanders up high, don't see it as a problem because we're "plugging the holes in the damn," for now...
OK, guard can certainly be different than federal reserves, but I always understood that if on federal orders, you got federal bennies. Strange.
08-04-2019, 04:55 PM
#12
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,544
Originally Posted by rickair7777
OK, guard can certainly be different than federal reserves, but I always understood that if on federal orders, you got federal bennies. Strange.
08-04-2019, 09:40 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,493
Most Stat Tours at the NGB/ANGRC were formerly USERRA Exempt up until May of 2015. Airline staff who came up in 2014 helped push that easy button, which deleted the “Exempt” and now your Stat tour began to count against the 5 year clock. We lost a lot of our airline folks who were near the 5 year limit and managed to land a Stat Tour to stop the clock in order to gain more retirement points or finalize an active duty retirement. That strategy worked up until mid 2015. Guillotine came down and forced many back to their airlines. Only those who had secured “Exception To Policy” were able to continue. All sorts of small print must be read before you sign at the dotted line. Loop holes have been tightening for years.
08-05-2019, 06:53 AM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 384
Originally Posted by rickair7777
OK, guard can certainly be different than federal reserves, but I always understood that if on federal orders, you got federal bennies. Strange.
The healthcare and GI Bill issues have already been fixed. The main remaining discrepancy is the early retirement.
https://www.ngaus.org/legislation/pr...-12304b-orders
08-05-2019, 06:54 AM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 384
Originally Posted by crewdawg
Tried digging up the e-mail from our last TSP, it had the breakdown, but I can't seem to find it. There were one or two more, but below is from memory.
Invol (12304b)
- USERRA exemption
- No early retirement credit
- No TAMP
- No Post 9/11 GI Bill credit
Vol (12301d)
- No USERRA exmption
- Early retirement credit
- TAMP
- Post 9/11 GI Bill Credit
Invol (12304b)
- USERRA exemption
- No early retirement credit
- No TAMP
- No Post 9/11 GI Bill credit
Vol (12301d)
- No USERRA exmption
- Early retirement credit
- TAMP
- Post 9/11 GI Bill Credit
08-05-2019, 10:40 AM
#16
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,544
Originally Posted by C17B74
Most Stat Tours at the NGB/ANGRC were formerly USERRA Exempt up until May of 2015. Airline staff who came up in 2014 helped push that easy button, which deleted the “Exempt” and now your Stat tour began to count against the 5 year clock.
Originally Posted by C17B74
Only those who had secured “Exception To Policy” were able to continue. All sorts of small print must be read before you sign at the dotted line.
Originally Posted by gollum
the FY18 NDAA and VA have already corrected the TAMP and GI bill issues. the retirement credit is still being worked on.
08-05-2019, 04:35 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 825
Originally Posted by crewdawg
Yup, I know of at least one guy at the ANGRC who has been out of MLOA for >9 or 10 years. Some are more special than others...
08-05-2019, 09:05 PM
#18
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
10 years....Jesus, at some point my old squadronmate ART has a point, and I quote: "for the best job in the world.... they sure hang out here all the time...."
08-05-2019, 09:08 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 825
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I think that's called having your cake and eating it too.
08-05-2019, 09:14 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
10 years....Jesus, at some point my old squadronmate ART has a point, and I quote: "for the best job in the world.... they sure hang out here all the time...."
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