Can I make this lifestyle work?
08-06-2019, 12:12 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Airbus F/O
Posts: 333
A couple of points here. I take it you don’t have the legacy job already? Stay where you are at while you go to a regional, etc until you get picked up by a legacy/cargo, etc.
The 5 year USERRA protection does not apply to schools, deployments, contingency orders, etc. Also it does not apply to your normal drills, IDT, AT. Keep that in mind.
Remember you can drop some of your airline schedule to cover the 4 days you need to do mil, you lose on the money, but it give your some flexibility, specially early on. Become very acquainted with USERRA, a great resource is the Reserve Officers Associations, a lot of court cases and Q&A.
Once you get to your legacy job then yes move to a domicile you can be happy at and commute to flying. The triad you are trying to do will Kill your QOL. Don’t forget you can probably sandwich those 4 days into 8 days back to back between months if your unit allows for better flexibility.
The 5 year USERRA protection does not apply to schools, deployments, contingency orders, etc. Also it does not apply to your normal drills, IDT, AT. Keep that in mind.
Remember you can drop some of your airline schedule to cover the 4 days you need to do mil, you lose on the money, but it give your some flexibility, specially early on. Become very acquainted with USERRA, a great resource is the Reserve Officers Associations, a lot of court cases and Q&A.
Once you get to your legacy job then yes move to a domicile you can be happy at and commute to flying. The triad you are trying to do will Kill your QOL. Don’t forget you can probably sandwich those 4 days into 8 days back to back between months if your unit allows for better flexibility.
08-06-2019, 12:15 PM
#12
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by detpilot
Check the legality of being "forced" to do 8 days per month. There is only so much a guard squadron can legally make you do, as a traditional. Strongly encouraged, maybe... But I haven't had to fight that battle (I've heard of others who have).
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08-06-2019, 12:34 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by rickair7777
There are numerous exemptions to the 5 year limit.
Basically any mandatory duty should be exempt. In your case that would be...
Initial training
Seasoning with the guard unit.
Essentially all drills (monthly participation, ie "weekend per month"+)
Annual Training ("two weeks per year"+)
Involuntary deployment orders
You should actually be able to do an entire career without ever touching any of your five-year limit... that really only applies to additional active duty which you volunteer for (you might have to do some of that to be competitive for promotion, but not five years worth).
In the federal reserves, many voluntary orders are also exempt if they support war efforts (essentially everything in the Navy). The guard is not as generous, due to it's legal structure, but at this point you do not have to concern yourself with the five year limit. And you probably never will.
As others have said, don't do a double commute. Personally I would live in the military domicile, at least initially, since while airlines have numerous hubs, guard units only have one and you might spend your whole military career there. Also I prefer flexibility with the mil, makes career progression easier. With the airline you just need to build hours and wait to upgrade. My work life mostly revolved around the mil, flying airline trips when it made sense. Fighters is probably going to resemble that, especially at first.
Basically any mandatory duty should be exempt. In your case that would be...
Initial training
Seasoning with the guard unit.
Essentially all drills (monthly participation, ie "weekend per month"+)
Annual Training ("two weeks per year"+)
Involuntary deployment orders
You should actually be able to do an entire career without ever touching any of your five-year limit... that really only applies to additional active duty which you volunteer for (you might have to do some of that to be competitive for promotion, but not five years worth).
In the federal reserves, many voluntary orders are also exempt if they support war efforts (essentially everything in the Navy). The guard is not as generous, due to it's legal structure, but at this point you do not have to concern yourself with the five year limit. And you probably never will.
As others have said, don't do a double commute. Personally I would live in the military domicile, at least initially, since while airlines have numerous hubs, guard units only have one and you might spend your whole military career there. Also I prefer flexibility with the mil, makes career progression easier. With the airline you just need to build hours and wait to upgrade. My work life mostly revolved around the mil, flying airline trips when it made sense. Fighters is probably going to resemble that, especially at first.
So if I understand correctly, the unit makes me fly with them 8 times a month, all 8 days then will be considered mandatory drill and therefore exempt? And yea I am not going to worry about the limit anymore as I misunderstood it originally.
08-06-2019, 12:36 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: long haul
Posts: 126
Not to be a buzz killer, but if you can't do at least 8 days a month as a new guy in a fighter squadron, you're in the wrong business. Did you not know this going in? Anyways, You should go on seasoning days for about 2 years. You will never be good if you don't commit yourself some time early on. If your not at a legacy now, there is no hub to move to. You'll only have 2-6 airline jobs in your life. Live where your squadron is until you have some seniority at your forever job. The worst thing to be is furloughed and commuting to a guard job. Times may be good now, but you are always one black swan event from a furlough. Early on, pick up a man day where you live and bum. Open time at a regional isn't worth it if you are getting turbine pic in a fighter. You can take mil leave all the time. If you are going on big chunks like a year at time you could run out. Not all orders count toward your five year limit. Are the guys in the squadron not explaining this to you? Ask them, I guarantee you they have this wired for their max benefit. BTW, be careful who you talk airline **** with at UPT. Be commit to their program, not your own. Best of luck, you have a golden ticket.
08-06-2019, 12:38 PM
#15
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by phoenix 23684
A couple of points here. I take it you don’t have the legacy job already? Stay where you are at while you go to a regional, etc until you get picked up by a legacy/cargo, etc.
The 5 year USERRA protection does not apply to schools, deployments, contingency orders, etc. Also it does not apply to your normal drills, IDT, AT. Keep that in mind.
Remember you can drop some of your airline schedule to cover the 4 days you need to do mil, you lose on the money, but it give your some flexibility, specially early on. Become very acquainted with USERRA, a great resource is the Reserve Officers Associations, a lot of court cases and Q&A.
Once you get to your legacy job then yes move to a domicile you can be happy at and commute to flying. The triad you are trying to do will Kill your QOL. Don’t forget you can probably sandwich those 4 days into 8 days back to back between months if your unit allows for better flexibility.
The 5 year USERRA protection does not apply to schools, deployments, contingency orders, etc. Also it does not apply to your normal drills, IDT, AT. Keep that in mind.
Remember you can drop some of your airline schedule to cover the 4 days you need to do mil, you lose on the money, but it give your some flexibility, specially early on. Become very acquainted with USERRA, a great resource is the Reserve Officers Associations, a lot of court cases and Q&A.
Once you get to your legacy job then yes move to a domicile you can be happy at and commute to flying. The triad you are trying to do will Kill your QOL. Don’t forget you can probably sandwich those 4 days into 8 days back to back between months if your unit allows for better flexibility.
But thank you everybody for all of the feedback! I am going to have a talk with the wife tonight about moving. You guys saved me from a huge headache and probably divorce, so I can not than everybody enough!
08-06-2019, 12:54 PM
#16
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by pony172
Not to be a buzz killer, but if you can't do at least 8 days a month as a new guy in a fighter squadron, you're in the wrong business. Did you not know this going in? Anyways, You should go on seasoning days for about 2 years. You will never be good if you don't commit yourself some time early on. If your not at a legacy now, there is no hub to move to. You'll only have 2-6 airline jobs in your life. Live where your squadron is until you have some seniority at your forever job. The worst thing to be is furloughed and commuting to a guard job. Times may be good now, but you are always one black swan event from a furlough. Early on, pick up a man day where you live and bum. Open time at a regional isn't worth it if you are getting turbine pic in a fighter. You can take mil leave all the time. If you are going on big chunks like a year at time you could run out. Not all orders count toward your five year limit. Are the guys in the squadron not explaining this to you? Ask them, I guarantee you they have this wired for their max benefit. BTW, be careful who you talk airline **** with at UPT. Be commit to their program, not your own. Best of luck, you have a golden ticket.
But yea I think that is a great game plan and I should have considered the possibility of furloughs. But I am just starting in the processing and I’m stuck waiting for a FC1 date at the moment.
Also thanks for the heads up. I have heard that some people get ****ed when u bring up airline stuff at UPT so I’ll watch who I talk about this too.
But you guys have given some great feedback and I appreciate everything!
08-06-2019, 02:11 PM
#17
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by detpilot
Check the legality of being "forced" to do 8 days per month. There is only so much a guard squadron can legally make you do, as a traditional. Strongly encouraged, maybe... But I haven't had to fight that battle (I've heard of others who have).
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08-06-2019, 03:40 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
When I first read this and saw that you were planning on commuting to a full time airline job AND an 8 day a month Guard job, I thought....what an *********, he will be divorced and an absent father in short order. But it sounds like you are getting and listening to good advice, so hopefully you'll work it out. Being home one week a month will not work for your family.
08-06-2019, 05:38 PM
#19
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,253
Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic
Thank you for that level of detail! I had no idea they even had that many exceptions, which really helps quality of life.
So if I understand correctly, the unit makes me fly with them 8 times a month, all 8 days then will be considered mandatory drill and therefore exempt? And yea I am not going to worry about the limit anymore as I misunderstood it originally.
So if I understand correctly, the unit makes me fly with them 8 times a month, all 8 days then will be considered mandatory drill and therefore exempt? And yea I am not going to worry about the limit anymore as I misunderstood it originally.
I usually do over 100 and it's never been an issue. Legally employers have no visibility on drills anyway, they are only allowed to ask for copies of orders over 30 days (which would never be drills).
Like I said, don't worry about USERRA at this point... there are billions of airline pilots in the guard/reserve and I've never met one who lost his job over it. If it ever does become an issue for you, you'll be a major or LtCol and will have plenty of resources to sort it out when the time comes. There's no way the military can force you do perform duty which would cause you to exceed five years and lose your real job. If it's mandatory, it's exempt.
08-06-2019, 08:38 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by busdriver12
When I first read this and saw that you were planning on commuting to a full time airline job AND an 8 day a month Guard job, I thought....what an *********, he will be divorced and an absent father in short order. But it sounds like you are getting and listening to good advice, so hopefully you'll work it out. Being home one week a month will not work for your family.
Some salient point by our peers being posted.
Double commute is bad for you unless your wife has a good boyfriend you like :0
Otherwise, you will likely end up divorced as your never home. Only know a few guys that pulled a double commute and they had exit strategies with a defined timeline to avoid long term separation.
Your squadron deserves 8 days a month IMO. Lots of quals to maintain and obligations they must meet for a combatant command.
Rickair covered your USERRA benefit. I did on average 10 days plus a month in my squadron for 14 years. I always moved to my airline domicile as had more flexibility in running a hectic life. My wife ended up becoming a stay at home CEO to run the enterprise with the kids so I could selfishly fly military and airline. It worked. 30 year military and married 30 years. Enjoy the rides. I miss the mil flying. Thank your wife and kids. They sacrifice much. Have fun, Remember , someone is always disappointed as you serve 3 masters, the military, the airline, the family. You will always be juggling the pain, but achievable as have witnessed many peers do same.
Cheers
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