Coast Guard OCS
 

Hello All,

I will try and keep it quick and Im sure this thread is all over here. Ive narrowed my decision down to Coast Guard and Navy. Leaning Coast Guard.

I am a Civilian Fixed Wing Flight Instructor and have just over 600 hours of flight time now and working on my CFII. Graduated college with a Bachelors last summer in Aviation MGMT. I have already taken the ASVAB and ASTB, all I have to do now is get the package together and head to meps.

Just curious on how the application process works for a flight slot. I understand most branches you can apply for a before signing any papers for a flight slot, while in the CG you apply while you're in OCS or after? Just trying to get an understanding. Also do you do the flight physical in OCS or before when I go to MEPS.

Thank you for any help!

Unless it's changed, USCG does not have a guaranteed flight ascension program. So you join, attend OCS, and maybe get a flight slot. If you don't get a flight slot, then you do 4 (5?) years as a regular officer.

Someone currently in the USCG could tell you what the odds are right now.

Yeah that's what it seems like, but according to what im reading online theyre hurting for pilots. But figured someone on here might have some experience or knowledge on this topic.

Thank you Rick

Hi Zach,
I'm prior service USCG, from 2004-2012. I graduated OCS class 01-04. When I joined there was a program for prior CG enlisted that guaranteed a flight school slot but that was the only thing even resembling what you're asking about, and you had to apply for this program while enlisted (I believe E4 or higher) and obviously you had to have a degree and also get through OCS. I did the flight physical in OCS not at MEPS. I was not prior enlisted so I competed for a flight school slot with the other CGA and OCS grads plus the O1-O3 active duty JO's in the fleet who were already commissioned. I got a slot in OCS, probably because I already had my PPL and about 100 hours of C172 time, which also allowed me to skip IFS and start primary sooner; this should all also apply to someone with your experience unless things have changed significantly. Right now the Coast Guard and pretty much the entire military is so hard up for pilots that they're granting a lot of medical and age waivers that were unheard of when I lateral transferred to the USNR in 2012, so unless you're 40 years old or have diabetes you should be good to go in terms of getting a flight slot either in OCS or shortly thereafter when you're either on a cutter or a shore tour at a sector. Seriously, don't sweat getting a flight school slot. It's not hard right now.

What is your eventual goal besides becoming a naval aviator? My advice to you is to only go into the Coast Guard if you are willing to fly one airframe your entire career, do a lot of SAR in IMC with no combat deployments, and go to exciting duty stations like Air Station Detroit. I have no hate for the CG but I transferred to the Navy as a senior O3 in 2012 because at the time the CG was broke as a result of sequestration and it was ugly, very low promotion rates to O4 (<50%), severely restricted training budgets, etc. but the USN/USNR were in much better shape with more opportunities. I did a lateral transfer within my year of rank group flying C40's in the USNR and put on O4 just two years later while more than half of my original OCS class who were still in the Coast Guard got passed over for O4 just because of the Coast Guard officer corps' atrophy during that period from 2011-2016.

Being a Coastie has some advantages. You can spend your entire career in Michigan, flying 65's between the two air stations there with some shore tours in Detroit, Traverse City and SSM. I use Michigan as an example but that also applies to Florida, California and Alaska off the top of my head, each of which has multiple CG air stations and shore billets. I have old OCS buds who literally have spent their entire careers doing this which is great for family life. But there's also a lot of negatives. The USCG is the smallest service with the smallest officer corps. EVERYONE knows everyone, literally. When times are good and the service is expanding (or, as is the case right now, when officer attrition is high because the civilian economy is so strong), it opens up a lot of billets and opportunity for advancement, but every time there are budget cuts, it hits the CG three times harder than the Navy or Air Force and a lot of good people including pilots get passed over twice for O4 or O5 and either get forced out or quit. The USCG is the only branch that doesn't have a substantive reserve aviation program so if you do decide to go reserves. you'll be forced to go navy or air force like I had to. And, while it DOES happen, it's not easy to go from rotary to fixed wing or vice versa in the CG, so you will probably spend your entire career in one airframe.

If you are going USCG because SAR looks fun but you also want a civilian airline career, bruh, DON'T DO IT. You can do the same SAR on USN 60's at Whidbey Island (just for example) and you still have so many opportunities the Navy offers that will never be available in the CG, like aircraft carriers, living in Japan, etc... Or if you don't care about the SAR aspect and want to go fixed wing, please consider that you'll build more time flying a P8A at a VP than you will flying an HH130 at a CG AIRSTA and the P8A time will be glass TPIC in a shiny jet that is basically a 737-8. When the USCG retired the Falcon just a few years ago it basically became a helo operation with a few fixed wing turboprops (C130's and C27's). The Navy has exponentially more aircraft, billets and opportunities for selection (promotion potential). When I was in zone for O4 after transferring to the Navy, the OOS for aviators was 80%, compared to 55% in the Coast Guard. I just got picked up for O5 and my OOS was 20% higher in the Navy than my Coast Guard buddies, mainly because the Navy is huge and the CG is so small it gets much more competitive than the DOD services once you are a LT.

Anyway, I hope this helps you. Don't worry about flight school. If your heart and soul is with the CG, given the background you already have you'll get a slot while in OCS as long as you are medically qualified and I'm sure you'll get to skip IFS. I loved my time in the CG and I had a great time flying in Alaska. Anyone on here who was a SNA (Navy, MC or CG) can answer any broader flight school questions you have but if you have any CG specific questions don't hesitate to ask. I don't post here much but I plan to more often.

Wow great thank you all for the responses. This makes the decision even harder. But with regards to medical I should be all set. I hold now a class 1 flight physical no cardio eye or ear issues. Two broken collar bones in the past but that’s it. I’m hoping my recruiter is able to get me a flight physical prior to OCS because I know if I get through that I will probably go through with OCS, I think my chances will be high to get a slot due to demands and my background. I am kind of set on CG, especially if I’m able to do the flight physical before OCS. I’m not worried much regarding airframe, flying is flying to me. However I understand fixed wing airframe will be better for life after. Thank you for the detailed responses, this was great.

An by all means if anyone has additional info on this topic please feel free to provide.

Thank you!

Have you looked into Guard/Reserve pilot slots? With your flight time & experience I’d think you’d have a great shot, check several units. There should be online information.

I’d rate a guaranteed pilot slot well above the idea of applying later. Back in my day, you had the flight physical before entry, then checked again at P’Cola.

Depending on the unit one can fly much more than the mins with a Reserve pilot position, while remaining flexible for civilian employment.

This. Navy or air guard/USAFR is your best bet in terms of flexibility, building more time quickly and civilian career. I appreciate what you're saying about flying being flying and not caring as much about airframe. Just keep in mind that during the recession, some airlines did not recognize rotary time at all and all of these RTAG programs and groups did not exist. If you fly 60's or 65's right now you still have to do an RTAG program at a flight school to build more fixed wing time as part of your CJO with a regional. So, if you go rotary regardless of whether it's the CG, navy or guard, you're guaranteed to have to go back to a civilian flight school to build more fixed wing time and then you will be headed to a regional airline, not straight to a legacy/FedEx/UPS. Alternatively, your fixed wing friends from the military are going straight into the airlines, most directly to legacy, FedEx or UPS. They will literally be YEARS ahead of you if you choose to go rotary, and if the economy is bad, you won't even have RTAG opportunities.

Point is, be very careful if you sincerely want a 121 career. The choices you make now will affect everything. Even if you ultimately decide to go USCG, go fixed wing because flying isn't always flying as far as the airlines are concerned. If you're flying P8's or C17's, you'll be setting yourself up for going directly to a legacy 121 carrier. If you go helos in any service it's going to be more fixed wing time building at a flight school, then regionals, then legacy, and that's IF everyone is still recognizing rotary time in a few years after the next recession occurs.

Yes. Navy is actually good because there is a good opportunity for FW assignment initially, and even if you get RW, there's a good opportunity to do a tour as a FW IP and get your mil FW numbers to a good place. Probably have to do 1-2 years at a regional after that, but might get straight to a good major. Not sure how the USCG stacks up in comparison.

If you're airline bound, you really want mil FW at some point.

You are getting very good information here especially from paulcg77. The one part that is being left out though is how hard it is to get accepted into Coast Guard OCS. You are a civilian so you'd be applying for an OCS-Reserve slot. Don't get hung up on the "Reserve" term. You'd still be active duty. Either way you need to contact and work with a recruiter.

There are typically two selection panels held each year for OCS-Reserve. The next one is December 9 and your application is due by September 23. The last selection panel had 26 slots of which half went to active duty enlisted members. If you got selected for this class you'd earn your commission July 20, 2020. The next selection panel after that isn't scheduled yet but should be around July 2020.


If you get in and then are lucky enough to get selected for flight school you will be on the hook for an additional 10 year commitment if selected for flight school meaning you'll probably miss the 121 hiring wave. Once you make O-5, you won't be flying much if at all. Just another thing to be cognizant of.

As someone who is retiring with 20 years active duty Coast Guard service next week, I'd say look elsewhere. Specifically, at Air National Guard or the Air Force. The Coast Guard is ridiculously underfunded and that is just one of its current issues. Best of luck!

Again all great information and appreciate everyone for their input. I have spoken to my recruiter and he obviously told me he cant guarantee me the flight slot however, he said I have a great shot at it. Giving the CG need for pilots.

Let me tell you a story (I know this sounds lame, but bare with me). When I first joined the CG it was 3 years after 9/11 during a period when the service was expanding and the economy was simultaneously doing great, so most officers including aviators were jumping ship after their minimum service obligation, which meant promotion potential/OOS was high and getting commissioned and into flight school was not difficult if you were competitive. By the mid-2000's the USCG was running four active duty OCS classes and two reserve OCS classes a year, which was a lot considering CG OCS is 17 weeks long and it's a small service.

Fast forward to 2011. Retention is at a record high because the economy sucks and no one, whether an aviator or a cutterman or a duck scrubber, is getting a civilian job, so there is a record surplus of LT's competing for promotion. This, combined with sequestration and budget cuts that leads to serious training and billet reductions causes a **** show that lasts for almost a decade in the CG officer corps where it's literally sink or swim, every man for himself. When I transferred to the Navy in 2012 the environment was absolutely miserable and morale was exceptionally low. Good officers and great pilots were spending 8+ years as LT's or if they weren't lucky enough to get on the LT continuation board they were axed completely. At the same time, because of the economy, airlines were barely hiring and had no interest in giving any credit for rotary wing pilots, no matter if you were God's gift to aviation.

Right now is like it was when I first joined the CG 15 years ago. The economy is beautiful, the hiring wave is real, and the military in general is hurting for pilots because we are all going to the airlines. This WILL change. It is a pendulum and it swings back and forth and if you really want to keep your options open you need to set yourself up for success.

The most flexible option that others have mentioned is either the Navy or the Air Guard/Reserves. If you really want flexibility, only the Guard/Reserves can guarantee you flight school AND airframe in advance, which is awesome. If you can find a guard unit with C17's who likes you, you will be guaranteed a C17 slot before you even start Air Force officer training. If you truly want to fly 121 later in your career and don't want to play russian roulette, do this. If you are fixated on a long term active duty career with 121 later on, go Navy because you'll at least have a significantly better chance of fixed wing AND as long as you aren't a complete tool you'll make it to 20 years and a pension (I've seen many tools achieve this too but it's even easier in a service as large as the Navy). IF you insist on Coast Guard, you won't find out your airframe until late in flight school and it is the needs of the service. I'll say that again: the needs of the service. Right now, everyone wants to set themselves up for 121 flying post-military so expect the C130 and C27 slots to be few and far between and to be strongly sought after by everyone. IF you get Coast Guard fixed wing, and you decide you want to go reserves some day because of family or whatever else, you'll be looking at the Navy or Air Guard/Reserves anyway. Or you could just take a guaranteed C17 slot in the ANG right now, go active guard, fly your ass off and go straight to Delta or FedEx and make bank. Your choice but you can't say you weren't warned.

Also, what DeeDee214 says is another great point. CG OCS is still the smallest there is and it's competitive. If you get it and do it you might find that you don't really want to be in the Coast Guard; not everyone wants to spend 17 weeks in Chase Hall memorizing nautical terms in the spindrift and taking **** from the academy cadets who are on the floors above you. Everyone, including you, will take the deck watch officer exam and prepare first and foremost to go to a cutter for your first tour. If you really want to fly and you don't get a flight school slot and end up in the fleet on a 378 fixing broken props all day you are going to hate life. If you go Air Guard you go from OTS straight to flight school then straight to the C17, guaranteed. Just be careful what you wish for and consider all of your options.

All thank you so much for the great information here. As far as navy and air guard goes I want to do naval flying and honestly have no real desire for Air Force. My entire family is all navy and marines.

Just did a little research for navy and not sure if my astb scores are high enough 4-7-5 48. However I think my background will help.

Well, I guess I'll chime in here. Recently retired prior Falcon and HC-144 pilot now doing 121 'stuff'.

Pretty much everything said is spot on, so I'll just throw in my two cents.

-Completely agree that you should only go Coast Guard if you are in love with the mission and organization. It's too big a commitment to see it as just a stepping stone to 121 flying. There are better routes (like a guard unit) if that's your goal.

-I would disagree that fixed wing flying is at a 'low'. The majority of coasties going through are selecting helicopters as that's where all the glamour is. If you want fixed wing, it's probably gonna be there for you. So you'd end up on a 130, 144, or a 27. Arguably, all good platforms.

-I've never met anyone that EVENTUALLY didn't get into flight school. You can apply every 6 months until you get it. What you do while you waiting, like other have said, could be spent floating on a 378. So how bad do you want it? The real challenge is getting into OCS....officer billets (academy and OCS) are obviously highly coveted.

-Flight time is in great abundance with most fixed wing communities. Ten years ago in the Falcon, a good year was 400 hours. There are 144 pilots getting over 600 hours a year. Concerns on flight time shouldn't be an issue in your decision process.

I thoroughly enjoyed my career in the CG and would recommend it to anyone, but like I said, only if you enjoy the missions. I absolutely loved low level VFR cruising along the blue waters Caribbean chasing bad guys and doing rescues. Yea, I flew in some pretty snotty weather, but that was a small part of the time. Just do your homework (which you are obviously doing now) and make sure the Coast Guard is a good fit for you because 10 years is a long time. Like I said, it's not a good gig if you are just looking for a place to log mil time.

Best of luck!

Sorry I forgot about the CASA, no offense intended! :D I got out of the CG right after DWH when it was hitting full stride. I still remember one of my Falcon friends crying about the 144's V speeds during his transition. And, 600 hours?! That's a lot more than what I was getting. Sweet!

Spot on. I am currently CG teaching primary flight training and I can tell you that if you want fixed wing in the CG right now, you've got it. There are usually 4-7 "disappointed" students every quarter getting selected to go fixed wing, their second choice. Of course, it could all change tomorrow, but the young flight students want the glamour and glory of the rescue like in The Guardian. I still have to convince some that they will not be jumping out of the back to affect the rescue, that they are pilots and flying is their job. As a HC-144 pilot myself, I flew lightly (mostly due to my year group having lots of copilots) and averaged 500-600 hours a year easily. All of the CG aircraft are great, maintenance does a great job, and the mission keeps you motivated.

With OCS you will have an 11 year total commitment. That will mean flight school followed by two flying tours then your commitment is generally over. You might have a little time left over on the back, but if you manage it right, you could fly your whole time. If you want to do more, great! If you want to then jump ship into a reserve or guard unit, you can do that too.

One last thing to remember, in the services you are an officer first and a pilot second. It sounds ridiculous because being bad at your desk job won't get you killed, but being a bad pilot will. Find a mentor with whichever service you end up and also lean heavily on your peers to get spun up on ground jobs. This can help keep focused without losing sight of the big picture both as an officer and aviator. Hope this helps.

Air National Guard
 

ANG, say it with me, Air National Guard. I am a recently retired Air Force Reserve Undergraduate Pilot Training T-38 IP. I just texted a few of my bro’s who are still T-38 IPing. There are still numerous ANG and AF Reserve students in UPT right now exactly like you: college grad with flight time.

Active duty sucks. Do not do it. If you want a guaranteed pilot training slot, look into the Air National Guard. 2nd choice, AF Reserve. There are truck tons of info on this site about the ANG, check out baseops.net, and bogie dope.

You said your family members are all Navy and Marines. If they have not told you about the ANG, they are all stoned out of their minds :)

Edit... with the AF and the ANG, you apply and take tests for a pilot training slot, if you aren’t accepted into pilot training, you do not have to join the service. With the AF and ANG, you sign your life away by entering the service AFTER you are given a pilot training slot. The CG, Navy, nor Marine Corps do not do it that way.

I was in your exact shoes 22 years ago. I spoke with a CG pilot in Traverse City, Michigan, and here is what he told me, “If I had it all to do over again, I would have joined the Air Force. Their primary mission is air. They have thousands and thousands of aircraft. Flying and maintaining thousands of aircraft is very expensive. The AF spends their money on aircraft and nice bases. In the CG, Navy and Marines, pilots are an after thought. They have no where near as many aircraft. In the Air Force, piloting is the mission.” I went through AF active-duty OTS. Wish I would have pursued the ANG instead.

And that is part of the problem.
You forget that you are support too.