Military FW to Airlines
#51
Also, because I'm still in the AFR and I was curious, I used a 401k calculator to figure out roughly how much 12 years of airline work is worth, in terms of retirement. 16% contribution at an average of 150k/yr, starting age 30, retiring at 42, with inflation matching wage growth, 6% growth, life expectancy of 85, it's $1.3M in retirement. So yeah, I'm not gonna pass up on that for the BRS, while being stationed in a rural meth town, for less money than a regional captain.
Frankly, the airline world is so cyclical and so volatile that as great as those financial numbers you ran sound, it could all be up in the air if something you can't control leads to a furlough. The 2000's were a pretty good example of this, with the combined 9/11 and recession effects on hiring for almost a decade. The nice thing about AD is if those other things I mentioned are true, you put in 20 years, retire in your early 40's as an O6 making $5,000/month guaranteed for the rest of your life plus another 20+ years left for a second career at an airline, and by that point in your career (unless you are rotor) you'll go straight to a mainline carrier and skip the regionals. AND unlike your reserve retiree compadres who can't collect their reserve pension until 60 (and who will have a significantly smaller military pension), you're banking that $5k/month either way, rain or shine, even if you're all furloughed. If you have a family or plan on having a family, having that financial guarantee that isn't dependent on the market, the industry or the economy is pretty nice when you have to pay for your kids' schooling and your mortgage. Yes, BRS is kind of lame and I'm glad I am High-3, but even with 40% instead of 50% at 20, staying AD either way is like insuring yourself against a furlough if and when you do go to the airlines. Just food for thought.
Final thing to say - when you're young, you think you're invincible and that is especially true as a young pilot. If you leave AD and get medical issues as a civilian pilot, even while as a reservist, it could end your career a lot earlier than you thought, and without a pot to urinate in. If you stay AD and something happens to you, especially something out of your control and/or unexpected, you'll get a service connected disability and probably a medical retirement from the military with a pension for life. You don't get this as a 121 pilot and reservist (unless you were injured while on ADOS/T10 etc), and if you have a family or want one, this is yet another safety net.
#52
Great points above. To add to this, if you wanted to jump to the ANG, now is the time. Everyone is running to the airlines, so there are AGRs and O-6 spots there for the taking. If you want to get an AGR retirement and have a lot more control over your life, I'd make the jump to the ANG now. Unlike the AF/Navy Reserves, non-vol 6+ months assignments are unheard of, so I wouldn't worry to much about those, although the opportunities are there if you so choose. We're losing 11+ O-5s/O-6s (30% of the squadron) within the next 12-15 months and we're really going to struggle to fill a few O-6 gigs. When we hire guys off AD, we're having to tell them it's an AGR gig only, because we just don't have room for part-timers. When I got back from training over a decade ago, we had no hope of an AGR gig for years, and I ended up going to a regional because orders dried up. If you want the retirement, but want a lot more control over your life and not have to move your family all the time, now is a great time to make the jump.
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 31
I left AD at 17 yrs and change, after my Sq command downrange. AGR for my last 3 years. Actually made the O-6 list 3 weeks after I dropped my retirement papers. I knew it was time to retire when they cut my unit's MPA days to 1/3 of the previous year and killed off 6 AGR spots my unit was supposed to get transferred over.
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 469
Hello all,
First post on this forum, so thanks in advance.
I recently landed a UPT spot with a heavy Air National Guard unit. I currently have around 150 hrs of time with a PPL and will continue to build that until I leave for training. I expect to gain another 250-300hrs total by the time I'm finished with UPT, follow on etc.
I'm currently 30 years old and attempting to plan out a timeline/pathway to the majors following military training completion and reaching the 750 mil-ATP. After all the post digging I've done here and other sites, I'm thinking the following timeline:
-2 Years for Mil UPT, aircraft specific and seasoning days at home unit- 750 hrs total for mil
-2 to 3 years at a Regional to build time and airline experience. Perhaps build another 2K hrs in this time frame.
-5 total years later from now and at the age of 35, perhaps land a job at a major.
Is this timeline unrealistic or doable? Any different pathways one would recommend after mil training, such as, attempt to land a full time mil job to build time?
Appreciate the insight!
First post on this forum, so thanks in advance.
I recently landed a UPT spot with a heavy Air National Guard unit. I currently have around 150 hrs of time with a PPL and will continue to build that until I leave for training. I expect to gain another 250-300hrs total by the time I'm finished with UPT, follow on etc.
I'm currently 30 years old and attempting to plan out a timeline/pathway to the majors following military training completion and reaching the 750 mil-ATP. After all the post digging I've done here and other sites, I'm thinking the following timeline:
-2 Years for Mil UPT, aircraft specific and seasoning days at home unit- 750 hrs total for mil
-2 to 3 years at a Regional to build time and airline experience. Perhaps build another 2K hrs in this time frame.
-5 total years later from now and at the age of 35, perhaps land a job at a major.
Is this timeline unrealistic or doable? Any different pathways one would recommend after mil training, such as, attempt to land a full time mil job to build time?
Appreciate the insight!
Bounce. Still the case for 2022? I more or less fit into this category. Mil FW time is low. I'm accumulating regional time FO time- but when to jump? Right to right ULCC? Then right to right again if I'm struggling with the commute to a ULCC? Or do I endure regional upgrade and risk stepping on my crank....
#55
Bounce. Still the case for 2022? I more or less fit into this category. Mil FW time is low. I'm accumulating regional time FO time- but when to jump? Right to right ULCC? Then right to right again if I'm struggling with the commute to a ULCC? Or do I endure regional upgrade and risk stepping on my crank....
If that's a ULCC with a big base in your hometown, go asap.
If that's a legacy, update your apps and go full court press on job fairs, networking, etc. Take the first upgrade, it's probably not that hard especially if you already are flying that plane.
That gets you where you're going faster, without intermediate stops.
If you're very conservative by nature, you could argue that taking the first major job offered (assuming tolerable geography) would be safest... in the past some people only got one major job offer ever. So that would assure you have a good job for life. But today, with mil experience, it's essentially assured the legacies will call eventually.
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 469
In the current climate I would plan to make only one more move, to the major that's a good career destination for you.
If that's a ULCC with a big base in your hometown, go asap.
If that's a legacy, update your apps and go full court press on job fairs, networking, etc. Take the first upgrade, it's probably not that hard especially if you already are flying that plane.
That gets you where you're going faster, without intermediate stops.
If you're very conservative by nature, you could argue that taking the first major job offered (assuming tolerable geography) would be safest... in the past some people only got one major job offer ever. So that would assure you have a good job for life. But today, with mil experience, it's essentially assured the legacies will call eventually.
If that's a ULCC with a big base in your hometown, go asap.
If that's a legacy, update your apps and go full court press on job fairs, networking, etc. Take the first upgrade, it's probably not that hard especially if you already are flying that plane.
That gets you where you're going faster, without intermediate stops.
If you're very conservative by nature, you could argue that taking the first major job offered (assuming tolerable geography) would be safest... in the past some people only got one major job offer ever. So that would assure you have a good job for life. But today, with mil experience, it's essentially assured the legacies will call eventually.
#57
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
I feel like I could cut bait and swap to a ULCC, get a new type, fly to less ****ty places, and not really have any sunk cost on my current seniority. I could continue living where I do and driving to work, so thats no factor. Cons are more training, back to reserve life, back to the bottom of a new list and losing out on that WO money for the next 2 years.
My instinct tells me to sit tight since life is pretty good and spend my spare time efforts on major applications. I'll upgrade on my reserve airframe in FY23, so I'll be getting heavy TPIC somehow in the next 6-19 months. I'd rather only make 1 more move, but as an enterprising reservist... I don't like missing out on good deals.
Last edited by Nickanicus; 06-25-2022 at 04:22 AM.
#58
Wondering how this checks out with a potential recession on the horizon as a reserve baby at an AA WO regional. Looks like the cash for the next 2 years is better where I'm at, and I could probably upgrade in about 1 year. I'm also flying more now that I'm off reserve, but definitely nowhere near far enough from the bottom of the list to avoid furlough if **** hits the fan.
I feel like I could cut bait and swap to a ULCC, get a new type, fly to less ****ty places, and not really have any sunk cost on my current seniority. I could continue living where I do and driving to work, so thats no factor. Cons are more training, back to reserve life, back to the bottom of a new list and losing out on that WO money for the next 2 years.
My instinct tells me to sit tight since life is pretty good and spend my spare time efforts on major applications. I'll upgrade on my reserve airframe in FY23, so I'll be getting heavy TPIC somehow in the next 6-19 months. I'd rather only make 1 more move, but as an enterprising reservist... I don't like missing out on good deals.
I feel like I could cut bait and swap to a ULCC, get a new type, fly to less ****ty places, and not really have any sunk cost on my current seniority. I could continue living where I do and driving to work, so thats no factor. Cons are more training, back to reserve life, back to the bottom of a new list and losing out on that WO money for the next 2 years.
My instinct tells me to sit tight since life is pretty good and spend my spare time efforts on major applications. I'll upgrade on my reserve airframe in FY23, so I'll be getting heavy TPIC somehow in the next 6-19 months. I'd rather only make 1 more move, but as an enterprising reservist... I don't like missing out on good deals.
Play the long game. Don't be afraid of making necessary moves due to *hypothetical* future events. Sometimes in this business if you miss an opportunity you might wait decades for another one. You live in a great time to be a pilot, don't assume that will last forever, get yourself into a good position while the gettin's good.
Unless you're sole bread winner with exceptional family circumstances (ie ill / disabled family member) be aggressive about key career steps. Long term it's better to be furloughed for 1-2 years with a seniority number at a great career-destination job, than employed at a stepping stone. Retirements dictate that any such furloughs will most likely be brief.
#59
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,636
Wondering how this checks out with a potential recession on the horizon as a reserve baby at an AA WO regional. Looks like the cash for the next 2 years is better where I'm at, and I could probably upgrade in about 1 year. I'm also flying more now that I'm off reserve, but definitely nowhere near far enough from the bottom of the list to avoid furlough if **** hits the fan.
I feel like I could cut bait and swap to a ULCC, get a new type, fly to less ****ty places, and not really have any sunk cost on my current seniority. I could continue living where I do and driving to work, so thats no factor. Cons are more training, back to reserve life, back to the bottom of a new list and losing out on that WO money for the next 2 years.
My instinct tells me to sit tight since life is pretty good and spend my spare time efforts on major applications. I'll upgrade on my reserve airframe in FY23, so I'll be getting heavy TPIC somehow in the next 6-19 months. I'd rather only make 1 more move, but as an enterprising reservist... I don't like missing out on good deals.
I feel like I could cut bait and swap to a ULCC, get a new type, fly to less ****ty places, and not really have any sunk cost on my current seniority. I could continue living where I do and driving to work, so thats no factor. Cons are more training, back to reserve life, back to the bottom of a new list and losing out on that WO money for the next 2 years.
My instinct tells me to sit tight since life is pretty good and spend my spare time efforts on major applications. I'll upgrade on my reserve airframe in FY23, so I'll be getting heavy TPIC somehow in the next 6-19 months. I'd rather only make 1 more move, but as an enterprising reservist... I don't like missing out on good deals.
#60
Focus on doing well at UPT. Then focus on mastering your mission. Fly as much as possible. Volunteer for every tdy and deployment. If you do those things you’ll end up at a major airline with plenty of time to make the money. I wouldn’t even worry about the “take full time orders versus regional” question yet.
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