Future Timeline?
02-01-2020, 10:39 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 1
Future Timeline?
I am wanting to know what my fastest route to a legacy would be and a timeline on when I could possible be there assuming hiring continues as is.
I got hired to a KC135/KC46 reserve unit and will begin OTS in June 2020. I am trying to grasp a decent timeline for my life on when I will graduate UPT and start my 6 month seasoning. At that point will I have enough hours to get hired at a regional? Is it possible to become an ART for a year or two and skip regionals all together to get hired at a major? I currently work in operations at Envoy and its absolutely disgusting on how we treat pilots. I'd like to be able to build up enough hours to bypass a regional if I can.
I got hired to a KC135/KC46 reserve unit and will begin OTS in June 2020. I am trying to grasp a decent timeline for my life on when I will graduate UPT and start my 6 month seasoning. At that point will I have enough hours to get hired at a regional? Is it possible to become an ART for a year or two and skip regionals all together to get hired at a major? I currently work in operations at Envoy and its absolutely disgusting on how we treat pilots. I'd like to be able to build up enough hours to bypass a regional if I can.
02-02-2020, 02:34 AM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 47
Future Timeline?
UPT lasts about 12-13 months. After graduation you’ll have around 260 hours and can qualify for your mil comp multi-engine commercial license. Survival school and kc-135 primary will take another six months but only add about 20 hours, most of it is academics and sims. After getting to your unit you’ll fly with them for several months on orders but hours will vary wildly from home station training to your first deployment; figure around 5-10 hours per week home station, but if you deploy you can get around 100-150 hours per month.
You need 750 hours to qualify for an R-ATP and be able to get hired by a regional. Realistically you’d need to upgrade to Aircraft Commander (2.5-4 years depending on your unit) and have ~2500TT with 1000 PIC to bypass the regionals. That takes the avg active duty tanker pilot around 9 years with their interruptions for PCSs, SOS, staff job duties, IP upgrade, etc.
Fastest path for you is to hump for 750 hours and get your ATP and a regional job as quickly as possible. You can get ~1000 hrs/year flying for whomever and become competitive for the majors within two years of getting your regional job going that route. Total min timeline to the majors = about 5 years, with two deployments immediately after becoming operational in your reserve squadron.
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You need 750 hours to qualify for an R-ATP and be able to get hired by a regional. Realistically you’d need to upgrade to Aircraft Commander (2.5-4 years depending on your unit) and have ~2500TT with 1000 PIC to bypass the regionals. That takes the avg active duty tanker pilot around 9 years with their interruptions for PCSs, SOS, staff job duties, IP upgrade, etc.
Fastest path for you is to hump for 750 hours and get your ATP and a regional job as quickly as possible. You can get ~1000 hrs/year flying for whomever and become competitive for the majors within two years of getting your regional job going that route. Total min timeline to the majors = about 5 years, with two deployments immediately after becoming operational in your reserve squadron.
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02-03-2020, 06:34 AM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
What he said. Faster, and mil + 121 will enhance your resume even more than either alone.
Might even consider burning some holes in the sky with a cessna, if you have the time and money along the way, to get your 750 and regional job that much sooner.
Might even consider burning some holes in the sky with a cessna, if you have the time and money along the way, to get your 750 and regional job that much sooner.
02-03-2020, 07:55 AM
#4
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,480
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Might even consider burning some holes in the sky with a cessna, if you have the time and money along the way, to get your 750 and regional job that much sooner.
^^^^THAT^^^^
500 hours in a Cessna 150/152 will cost you less than $50,000. That plus UPT gets you to 750. That let’s you get hired at a regional and gets you a seniority number. Your seniority number continues to build while you are on your deployments and you can avoid the crappier parts of being a regional pilot but still take advantage of the relatively faster time building. And yeah, $50k is some coin, but it’s like the price of an automobile. If it will get you to a major even a year sooner it’s money well spent.
02-03-2020, 09:42 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: C-150
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Excargodog
^^^^THAT^^^^
500 hours in a Cessna 150/152 will cost you less than $50,000. That plus UPT gets you to 750. That let’s you get hired at a regional and gets you a seniority number. Your seniority number continues to build while you are on your deployments and you can avoid the crappier parts of being a regional pilot but still take advantage of the relatively faster time building. And yeah, $50k is some coin, but it’s like the price of an automobile. If it will get you to a major even a year sooner it’s money well spent.
500 hours in a Cessna 150/152 will cost you less than $50,000. That plus UPT gets you to 750. That let’s you get hired at a regional and gets you a seniority number. Your seniority number continues to build while you are on your deployments and you can avoid the crappier parts of being a regional pilot but still take advantage of the relatively faster time building. And yeah, $50k is some coin, but it’s like the price of an automobile. If it will get you to a major even a year sooner it’s money well spent.
02-03-2020, 10:14 AM
#6
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,480
Originally Posted by Dynasty22
Or grab your CFI and instruct and make money for those last 500 hours or so?
Depends on local area CFI demand and how much time and effort he wants to devote into getting his CFI. But basically the sooner he can get into building 1000 121 hours a year the better. Every year he is delayed in that will cost him a lot more than that in pay even over the next five years - and far more in lifetime pay. Not to mention the loss of a year or two of CAREER LIFETIME seniority when majors will be hiring 1000 new pilots a year.
Probably no $50 k he can invest right now will give him a better yield in terms of return on investment. Even a $50k loan to make it happen at 10% interest would only wind up costing him ~$450 a month until he can pay it back. That’s a car payment. Yeah, yeah, it’s nice to not have outstanding debt but sometimes it’s worth it.
02-03-2020, 01:04 PM
#7
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Depends on local area CFI demand and how much time and effort he wants to devote into getting his CFI. But basically the sooner he can get into building 1000 121 hours a year the better. Every year he is delayed in that will cost him a lot more than that in pay even over the next five years - and far more in lifetime pay. Not to mention the loss of a year or two of CAREER LIFETIME seniority when majors will be hiring 1000 new pilots a year.
Probably no $50 k he can invest right now will give him a better yield in terms of return on investment. Even a $50k loan to make it happen at 10% interest would only wind up costing him ~$450 a month until he can pay it back. That’s a car payment. Yeah, yeah, it’s nice to not have outstanding debt but sometimes it’s worth it.
Depends on local area CFI demand and how much time and effort he wants to devote into getting his CFI. But basically the sooner he can get into building 1000 121 hours a year the better. Every year he is delayed in that will cost him a lot more than that in pay even over the next five years - and far more in lifetime pay. Not to mention the loss of a year or two of CAREER LIFETIME seniority when majors will be hiring 1000 new pilots a year.
Probably no $50 k he can invest right now will give him a better yield in terms of return on investment. Even a $50k loan to make it happen at 10% interest would only wind up costing him ~$450 a month until he can pay it back. That’s a car payment. Yeah, yeah, it’s nice to not have outstanding debt but sometimes it’s worth it.
02-03-2020, 03:07 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 27
So I’m currently going this route with the tanker reserve job and regional gig. So far, I’d say that this is probably the fastest route to a major from zero/little time. Instead of renting/buying a Cessna or instructing to get over the 750 hour hump, I thing the smartest thing to do is volunteer for a deployment. Many guard/reserve/AD associate units will gladly take volunteers to fill deployment slots.
I timed it out so that I went on orders for a deployment as soon as my seasoning orders ended so there was a seamless transition. I also recommend doing this as it’s very beneficial to get a deployment under your belt as a new Co to solidify experience in the tanker. I think it would hurt your progress in the tanker to just come off of seasoning with a handful of hours and then just burn holes in the sky in a Cessna or flight instructing. Also a deployment is usually your best bang for your buck for flight hours in a short amount of time.
I used my down time during deployment to get my regional apps together, schedule FAA medical, acquire FCC radio license, convert logbook mil time to civilian, collect school transcripts, study/prepare for interview, etc. Depending on what you’re starting with, you should come off of that first 60 day-er with close to 750 total time. Also keep in mind that regionals will hire you well before you hit 750 if you can show that you will be able to have most of it prior to class start through regular flying in the ARC.
You can use up to 100 hours of (FAA certified) sim time towards those minimums as well (most AF sims are not certified so don’t count legally). Between ATP-CTP + your regional initial training you can get anywhere from 35-50 creditable sim hours. Hit the line at your regional and fly your a$$ off and upgrade quick so you can start getting that PIC. This should be the magic equation. Good luck and PM if you wanna chat more.
I timed it out so that I went on orders for a deployment as soon as my seasoning orders ended so there was a seamless transition. I also recommend doing this as it’s very beneficial to get a deployment under your belt as a new Co to solidify experience in the tanker. I think it would hurt your progress in the tanker to just come off of seasoning with a handful of hours and then just burn holes in the sky in a Cessna or flight instructing. Also a deployment is usually your best bang for your buck for flight hours in a short amount of time.
I used my down time during deployment to get my regional apps together, schedule FAA medical, acquire FCC radio license, convert logbook mil time to civilian, collect school transcripts, study/prepare for interview, etc. Depending on what you’re starting with, you should come off of that first 60 day-er with close to 750 total time. Also keep in mind that regionals will hire you well before you hit 750 if you can show that you will be able to have most of it prior to class start through regular flying in the ARC.
You can use up to 100 hours of (FAA certified) sim time towards those minimums as well (most AF sims are not certified so don’t count legally). Between ATP-CTP + your regional initial training you can get anywhere from 35-50 creditable sim hours. Hit the line at your regional and fly your a$$ off and upgrade quick so you can start getting that PIC. This should be the magic equation. Good luck and PM if you wanna chat more.
02-03-2020, 03:42 PM
#9
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by Simple_Jack
So I’m currently going this route with the tanker reserve job and regional gig. So far, I’d say that this is probably the fastest route to a major from zero/little time. Instead of renting/buying a Cessna or instructing to get over the 750 hour hump, I thing the smartest thing to do is volunteer for a deployment. Many guard/reserve/AD associate units will gladly take volunteers to fill deployment slots.
I timed it out so that I went on orders for a deployment as soon as my seasoning orders ended so there was a seamless transition. I also recommend doing this as it’s very beneficial to get a deployment under your belt as a new Co to solidify experience in the tanker. I think it would hurt your progress in the tanker to just come off of seasoning with a handful of hours and then just burn holes in the sky in a Cessna or flight instructing. Also a deployment is usually your best bang for your buck for flight hours in a short amount of time.
I used my down time during deployment to get my regional apps together, schedule FAA medical, acquire FCC radio license, convert logbook mil time to civilian, collect school transcripts, study/prepare for interview, etc. Depending on what you’re starting with, you should come off of that first 60 day-er with close to 750 total time. Also keep in mind that regionals will hire you well before you hit 750 if you can show that you will be able to have most of it prior to class start through regular flying in the ARC.
You can use up to 100 hours of (FAA certified) sim time towards those minimums as well (most AF sims are not certified so don’t count legally). Between ATP-CTP + your regional initial training you can get anywhere from 35-50 creditable sim hours. Hit the line at your regional and fly your a$$ off and upgrade quick so you can start getting that PIC. This should be the magic equation. Good luck and PM if you wanna chat more.
I timed it out so that I went on orders for a deployment as soon as my seasoning orders ended so there was a seamless transition. I also recommend doing this as it’s very beneficial to get a deployment under your belt as a new Co to solidify experience in the tanker. I think it would hurt your progress in the tanker to just come off of seasoning with a handful of hours and then just burn holes in the sky in a Cessna or flight instructing. Also a deployment is usually your best bang for your buck for flight hours in a short amount of time.
I used my down time during deployment to get my regional apps together, schedule FAA medical, acquire FCC radio license, convert logbook mil time to civilian, collect school transcripts, study/prepare for interview, etc. Depending on what you’re starting with, you should come off of that first 60 day-er with close to 750 total time. Also keep in mind that regionals will hire you well before you hit 750 if you can show that you will be able to have most of it prior to class start through regular flying in the ARC.
You can use up to 100 hours of (FAA certified) sim time towards those minimums as well (most AF sims are not certified so don’t count legally). Between ATP-CTP + your regional initial training you can get anywhere from 35-50 creditable sim hours. Hit the line at your regional and fly your a$$ off and upgrade quick so you can start getting that PIC. This should be the magic equation. Good luck and PM if you wanna chat more.
Reason being, once you get the regional seniority number you're making daily seniority progress towards 121 upgrade... even if you're flying a tanker over another continent.
02-04-2020, 05:34 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by Excargodog
^^^^THAT^^^^
500 hours in a Cessna 150/152 will cost you less than $50,000. That plus UPT gets you to 750. That let’s you get hired at a regional and gets you a seniority number. Your seniority number continues to build while you are on your deployments and you can avoid the crappier parts of being a regional pilot but still take advantage of the relatively faster time building. And yeah, $50k is some coin, but it’s like the price of an automobile. If it will get you to a major even a year sooner it’s money well spent.
500 hours in a Cessna 150/152 will cost you less than $50,000. That plus UPT gets you to 750. That let’s you get hired at a regional and gets you a seniority number. Your seniority number continues to build while you are on your deployments and you can avoid the crappier parts of being a regional pilot but still take advantage of the relatively faster time building. And yeah, $50k is some coin, but it’s like the price of an automobile. If it will get you to a major even a year sooner it’s money well spent.
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