RAF and British Union working together
05-13-2020, 05:36 AM
#1
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RAF and British Union working together
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...dment-11986803
RAF and BALPA are working together to keep furloughed BA pilots working. I've always been impressed with the RAF, hope this works out for both parties. OK, I had to look up secondment, not a word commonly used around here.
British Airways pilots and other civilian aviators at risk of redundancy because of coronavirus job cuts might be able to join the Royal Air Force on secondment, Sky News understands.
Talks are underway between the RAF and members of the aviation industry to explore whether civilian pilots who previously served in the armed forces and those with no prior military experience could fill hundreds of vacancies in flying and ground-based roles, according to RAF and aviation industry officials and sources.
Talks are underway between the RAF and members of the aviation industry to explore whether civilian pilots who previously served in the armed forces and those with no prior military experience could fill hundreds of vacancies in flying and ground-based roles, according to RAF and aviation industry officials and sources.
Secondment
Secondment is the assignment of a member of one organisation to another organisation for a temporary period. The employee typically retains their salary and other employment rights from their primary organisation but they work closely within the other organisation to provide training and the sharing of experience. This is not to be confused with temporary work.
Secondment is the assignment of a member of one organisation to another organisation for a temporary period. The employee typically retains their salary and other employment rights from their primary organisation but they work closely within the other organisation to provide training and the sharing of experience. This is not to be confused with temporary work.
05-13-2020, 07:48 AM
#2
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We already sort of have that, it's called CRAF.
But it won't be activated unless it's actually needed, they're not going to do that just to keep some pilots employed.
Although at the rate we're descending, the odds of a big war somewhere are picking up every day. So the guard/reserve folks and CRAF pilots may be in luck after all.
But it won't be activated unless it's actually needed, they're not going to do that just to keep some pilots employed.
Although at the rate we're descending, the odds of a big war somewhere are picking up every day. So the guard/reserve folks and CRAF pilots may be in luck after all.
05-13-2020, 07:50 AM
#3
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We still have a pilot shortage in the military... I don’t see why the DoD couldn’t create a streamline program to allow pilots to fill cargo/tanker flying billets after attending a 6 week direct commissioning program like they do for medical professionals. Of course they would have to attend the airplane specific FTU to be qualified to fly as the co-pilot.
Last edited by ugleeual; 05-13-2020 at 08:09 AM.
05-13-2020, 08:00 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by ugleeual
We still have a pilot shortage in the military... I don’t see why the DoD couldn’t create a streamline program to allow pilots to fill cargo/tanker flying billets after attending a 6 week commissioning program like they do for medical professionals.
Our current pilot shortage is mid/senior officers for leadership/staff billets... too many of those were leaving earlier than usual for airlines, but that problem looks solved for a few years at least. Those guys cannot be replaced by civilian pilots, they need years of military organizational experience, not just stick and rudder skills.
Never in recent decades has there been a shortage of military pilot new-hires (shortages were for grunts), and a bad economy will give the military their pick of the litter now.
05-13-2020, 08:17 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
We could do something like that in a war, IF we had more planes than pilots.
Our current pilot shortage is mid/senior officers for leadership/staff billets... too many of those were leaving earlier than usual for airlines, but that problem looks solved for a few years at least. Those guys cannot be replaced by civilian pilots, they need years of military organizational experience, not just stick and rudder skills.
Never in recent decades has there been a shortage of military pilot new-hires (shortages were for grunts), and a bad economy will give the military their pick of the litter now.
Our current pilot shortage is mid/senior officers for leadership/staff billets... too many of those were leaving earlier than usual for airlines, but that problem looks solved for a few years at least. Those guys cannot be replaced by civilian pilots, they need years of military organizational experience, not just stick and rudder skills.
Never in recent decades has there been a shortage of military pilot new-hires (shortages were for grunts), and a bad economy will give the military their pick of the litter now.
05-13-2020, 11:20 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by ugleeual
true... they’d need to put these individuals in flying units and move many of the career rated officers into the staff billets that are woefully understaffed for rated officers. When I worked in the Pentagon 6-9 years ago I was one of a handful of Fighter Pilots on the A3/5 staff... all the rated staff billets were filled by GS civilians who flew F4s, F111s, and F-15A models in the early 80s! It would be refreshing to have more recently qualified rated pilots filling these staff billets at MAJCOMs and Air Staff.
Anyway, I think the problem is solved for a good while, those with pending resignations/retirements are frantically clawing those back right now.
06-26-2020, 08:20 PM
#7
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https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-...139009.article
But the well-trodden pathway that has seen military crews swap one uniform for another could now be reversed, with the USAF investigating the possible recruitment of commercial airline pilots laid off on the back of coronavirus.
Although still in the early stages, the USAF initiative could help it address shortages of key personnel. Presumably, it would not throw ex-airline pilots straight into the cockpit of a fast jet, but with a number of airliner-derived types in the service’s inventory, it is not too much of a logical leap to imagine a former Boeing 767 captain finding employment at the controls of a KC-46A tanker, for example.
Although still in the early stages, the USAF initiative could help it address shortages of key personnel. Presumably, it would not throw ex-airline pilots straight into the cockpit of a fast jet, but with a number of airliner-derived types in the service’s inventory, it is not too much of a logical leap to imagine a former Boeing 767 captain finding employment at the controls of a KC-46A tanker, for example.
06-28-2020, 07:58 AM
#8
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it is not too much of a logical leap to imagine a former Boeing 767 captain finding employment at the controls of a KC-46A tanker, for example.
While this sounds logical, it may not work so well in practice. Your average pax hauler 76 Capt is at least as old as your average 0-6, while your average tanker AC is in his twenties. A tanker AC may be told (no contractual protection) to T/O 18 hours after his last sortie landed and to fly up to 150 hours a month. It’s a young mans’ game for good reason. Crew resting in tents, eating MREs, having that rest reduced for operational necessity, dealing with bs from a squadron commander in his mid-30s who came up in a different weapon system, etc. Military ops run on the backs of young captains and lieutenants who can burn the candle at both ends all around the middle for years on end. They get burned out for good reason.
While this sounds logical, it may not work so well in practice. Your average pax hauler 76 Capt is at least as old as your average 0-6, while your average tanker AC is in his twenties. A tanker AC may be told (no contractual protection) to T/O 18 hours after his last sortie landed and to fly up to 150 hours a month. It’s a young mans’ game for good reason. Crew resting in tents, eating MREs, having that rest reduced for operational necessity, dealing with bs from a squadron commander in his mid-30s who came up in a different weapon system, etc. Military ops run on the backs of young captains and lieutenants who can burn the candle at both ends all around the middle for years on end. They get burned out for good reason.
06-30-2020, 05:10 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by ugleeual
We still have a pilot shortage in the military... I don’t see why the DoD couldn’t create a streamline program to allow pilots to fill cargo/tanker flying billets after attending a 6 week direct commissioning program like they do for medical professionals. Of course they would have to attend the airplane specific FTU to be qualified to fly as the co-pilot.
06-30-2020, 07:03 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk
The Army Guard was doing something like this. You had to already be a rated IERW pilot with extensive civilian FW experience. Rather than sending you to the full fixed-wing course, they would send you to the C-23 Sherpa course. You then wouldn't pass go, wouldn't collect $200, you would go to Iraqistan.
That's because Army aviation is a supporting function, they can have lots of warrants or people like in your example who are not on track for future high leadership positions. Most army pilots can stay in the cockpit or pretty close to it most of the time.
For the USAF aviation is the main event, pilots are at the pointy end, so they need lots of those pilots taking their expertise and experience to staff and leadership roles at all levels of the enterprise.
The USN is not a coast guard, it is a long-range blue water force and aviation is it's primary power-projection tool. Same needs as the AF for experienced pilots in staff and leadership.
For USMC, aviation is one of three fundamental pillars of their fighting model (air, ground, logistics), so their pilot staffing model is about the same as the USN. Can't have one of the pillars under-represented in the senior-officer/staff realm.
Also, dose of reality, USN/USAF/USMC pilot slots are used as a de facto recruiting and retention tool for the officer ranks. Didn't start out that way intentionally but that's where it wound up. If they switched to warrant/enlisted pilots it would mess up officer recruiting (the ones they really want would go do something else, or be stuck, possibly quite happily, in enlisted/warrant/LDO ranks). Those three services will let you have your fun but then they expect you to contribute in different ways as you get more senior.
