Fat Old Tired

What I do wrong? Was just curious why he would become an airline pilot? It's not something many people nowadays want to pursue.

rickair7777

Why are you in the mil forum? It's not your scene, you should stay away.

He's not starting from scratch to become an airline pilot, he's already a professional pilot who needs a different gig due to family. The majority of mil FW pilots end up in the airlines because nobody can stay in the mil forever.

60drover

I’m posting this question/my situation here because it seems a like good and relevant topic, though a little older. If anyone thinks I should make my own thread or if there is a different thread to post into to get more relevant response, I’d appreciate the direction. I feel in need of some mentorship going forward.

My situation - I’m an active army helicopter pilot currently oconus with my family. I have my commercial license and I’m an instructor pilot and instrument examiner. I have 12 years time in service, 35 years old, 1300 hours(no fixed wing) and I’ll be finished with my bachelors degree in ~ 8 months. If I get out I’ll have the gi bill available and I do have some savings that we could utilize. I have 2 years mandatory left that I could potentially shrink to a year(step on a few toes maybe). I’m married with 5 kids, but no real home in the states or place to go there.

I’ve been lucky in my career and have been with my family most of my time in despite high optempo and my busy schedule. This pick may or may not continue, but my service being the army with 8 years remaining I don’t expect this luck to hold. Honestly I’m feeling burned out a little. The benefits that come with military service have started to lose their shine, the benefits of a military retirement have begun to lose their appeal/feel less worth it, and my body is getting tired of helicopters. Army aviation is making some less than agreeable decisions for retention that have begun to disillusion me. Needless to say, I’m considering the airline transition.

I’ve spoke with some rtag individuals and I felt like the whole thing was being “sold” to me as the best thing ever and I received some pressure to get out now so I can get seniority. I’ve spoke with some military lifers and they of course think it’s crazy to give up retirement. I’m also speaking with some army guard aviators and they think guard is great and understand my perspective somewhat, but none of them are airline pilots.

I’ve been changing military careers enough that I know the grass is not greener most times, just different. I also don’t want to jump ship from my military career just because I’m afraid to miss out on an airline career. The transition seems daunting, risky, and hard for the family. The guard seems difficult if I expect to move around for airline jobs changes etc. I’ll stop here to avoid this getting too long, but I could use some direction and some outside thoughts/advice.

hydrostream

I got out after 9 years as a warrant. It took me 9 months to get through my ratings and into class at a regional using their RTP. Unfortunately that program doesn't exist anymore, and most airlines have been very slow to get people into class if they hire them at all. BUT by the time you finish your UQR process things could be different. This industry changes overnight it seems.

Anyways, what I can tell you for sure is that my family life as an airline pilot (even at a regional) is incredible compared to how my life was on active duty.

I miss the camaraderie. I've made lots of friends but they live all over the country. I see them around the crew room but I can't call them on Friday night to invite to my bonfire.

Make sure you're prepared financially. I had about six months worth of pay and healthcare lined up when I got out, and it was crucial to taking the pain/stress/pressure off of my transition.

Anyways, 8 years is both a long time and a short time. None of us know you or your situation. I was fond of the Army and enjoyed my service but I LOVE life now.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. It's been a few years but maybe I can help...

rickair7777

At this exact moment in time, they are 100% correct... it's never been this good opportunity-wise, and probably never will be again. The contrast between any AD gig, and most especially Big Green, is rather stark. Army only holds a candle if you're truly passionate about the mil and all of your future prospects there. That's today's IPB (it would have beeen quite different 10-15 years ago.

They would, they worked hard for it and tend to rationalize it's value. It sure comes in handy in some economic climates but frankly anyone with a solid mil background and an ounce of initiative can do better on CIV street, aviation or otherwise. I stuck it out in the reserves, but that was less for the retirement than for current income and stability. Actually the best benefit isn't so much the money, it's the medical bennies after age 65... you can get that in the reserves.

Generally guard or reserves (in that order) is a great option for airline pilots. Airline schedules allow near-unlimited flexibility, and aviators with 10+ years active duty have a lot of retirement points on the table. I'd absolutely try to finish up in the guard, even if it's a low-key staff job.

Like I said unprecedented opportunity. I know of fixed wing guys who are debating leaving for the airlines at 17-18 years AD, and it's a hard decision if you do the math. There are a LOT of retirements right now and so there is a lot of opportunity to bag seniority. Seniority is life in the airlines, like speed is life in the mil.

If you're inclined towards airlines and not in love with the mil I'd absolutely do it. But time is of the essence, I'd start working on a FW PPL right now and get as much time towards ratings and R-ATP as possible. For the R-ATP you need to get a regional job you'll need 750 hours total and lot of your RW counts towards that.

RW or not, once you get 1000 hours in an RJ, the majors will snap you right up in this climate. They are having cultural issues due to demographics and want all the mil they can get at this point.

You won't find the transition too hard, but it's obviously disruptive on the fam.

You do not want to commute to *both* airline and guard jobs. Live in base for one, I found better luck living in the mil base, that way I was free to take care of business or drill as desired on my airline days off. If you don't need a flying gig in the guard, that gives you a lot more flexibility with where you drill... more jobs and much easier to switch as needed. You already have more than enough RW time, don't need any more for the airlines.

Big Risk: Medical issues. If you get out and suddenly can't fly, you might well also lose eligibility to participate in guard/reserves (they only take care of injuries which happen on guard duty). Then you might have to find a non-flying civilian career... if the FAA grounds you, the AD Army might not let you back in, depending on the condition. The good news: Many majors have excellent disability programs, some of them to the point where you can medical out in your 30's and pull down 80%+ pay and bennies until age 65 without lifting a finger. So the valley you have to cross is really just a few years of GA training, regional flying, and a couple years at the major to qualify for decent disability.

Big Factor: Wife and family. Is she up for it? She's probably pretty independent, but when you deploy in the mil she's got the local support system. If you drag her to some mid-size regional base far away from friends and family she's going to be on her own when you're gone on trips. Kid's ages? School situation? The good news here is that you should be able to breeze through the regionals and get to a major quickly. Then things are much better, and if you're flexible on where you live you can move to a junior base and enjoy stratospheric seniority progression.

Degree: Keep plugging away, you never know when you might need it, but in this climate, if you're going to do it, focus on flying first.

Obviously you're the one who has to decide, but at this moment in history the grass actually is pretty green over here.

Hobbit64

PM Sent
(filler)

60drover

Medical issues may be the number 1 factor giving me pause. It is good to hear that once I'm established in the airlines their are still options in case medical becomes a problem. The guard appeals for the safety net to take care of the family, especially initially making the switch - which is where a lot of my anxiety comes from.

Nail on the head - 8 years is so short, but then again it is also long.

I really appreciate those of you who replied. I'm probably a few steps closer to the decision to leave ad. It is an agonizing decision, but I think some of my concerns have been addressed.