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Never give an order you lack…

Old 07-21-2022, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Would take some of the teeth out of good order and discipline.

The mil would react by processing more folks for OTH and DD. And out of necessity imposing more stringent punishment... brig time instead of a months pay, etc.
For that they would need to win a court martial and have the judge actually give that as a punishment. Not impossible I suppose, but the track record on that isn’t good so far.




Now multiply that by 60,000, 200,000 if you count those only partially immunized. now multiply that by the 25 man-days (well, person-days anyway) per court martial, most of them officer-days, and it becomes clear why it is best to just not give stupid orders.


Not to mention there isn’t enough brig space to hold that many.



Nor will examples like this be helpful in defending this order:


Last edited by Excargodog; 07-21-2022 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 07-22-2022, 08:21 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
For that they would need to win a court martial and have the judge actually give that as a punishment. Not impossible I suppose, but the track record on that isn’t good so far.




Now multiply that by 60,000, 200,000 if you count those only partially immunized. now multiply that by the 25 man-days (well, person-days anyway) per court martial, most of them officer-days, and it becomes clear why it is best to just not give stupid orders.


Not to mention there isn’t enough brig space to hold that many.
I wasn't talking about the vaccination issue, rather the disciplinary stick vs carrot balance in general. Granting ill-behaved SM's generous VA bennies will force the mil to assign more draconian punishments and bad paper to discourage ill behavior.

The need to shift some discipline from NJP to CM would stress the system a little but it could certainly adapt.

In the majority of cases that I saw, when we offered NJP, we were doing the SM a favor by handling at the lower level... basically trying to keep it in house and give the SM another chance. They would have all pretty much have lost at CM, and suffered more severe punishment. That's why most SM's accept NJP when offered... if they bother to get counsel, their lawyer will usually advise the same unless they're actually innocent and can prove it. In the later case you might want CM to ensure enough due to process to make your case.



Bottom-line, another half-cocked congressional intervention.
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Old 07-22-2022, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777;
I wasn't talking about the vaccination issue, rather the disciplinary stick vs carrot balance in general. Granting ill-behaved SM's generous VA bennies will force the mil to assign more draconian punishments and bad paper to discourage ill behavior.
Partially agree. Yet another reason not to issue stupid orders because you do tempt the lawmakers to get involved. When this Congress convened, it had the lowest number of veterans since at least the start of WWII.

Here’s a look at the group, by the numbers:

• 91 total veterans in the 117th Congress.

• 17 serve in the Senate, 74 serve in the House.

• 28 are Democrats, 63 are Republicans.
As with many other issues, few politicians actually have the background to understand some of the decisions they are making or the forbearance not to cast a vote without researching it or consulting with more knowledgeable others.

The need to shift some discipline from NJP to CM would stress the system a little but it could certainly adapt.
Not without a serious change in the UCMJ which would require the action of the same Congress who increasingly lack understanding of the military. Changing the UCMJ in a more dogmatic and mission focused direction seems improbable at best. Recent Congressional actions seem to be going the other way:

https://www.nawj.org/blog/newsroom/p...h-the-new-year

And from my three experiences on CM Boards, the current system is exceedingly manpower intensive and logistically incapable of being upscaled substantially, and that as much as anything leads to NJP. You simply can’t AFFORD to broadly apply courts martial. Article 15 is the military equivalent of plea bargaining. It permits the military to function without the unsustainable overhead of every infraction going to CM. But like plea bargaining, it requires the accused to ACCEPT the deal. Offering an Article 15 and having the accused refuse it pretty well forces you to go to CM. Losing after taking someone to CM undermines the chain of command even more.




Bottom-line, another half-cocked congressional intervention.
Absolutely, and as the military experience level in Congress continues to decline, doing things like issuing stupid orders make such interventions far more likely than convincing Congress to streamline the UCMJ system.
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Old 07-22-2022, 09:14 PM
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https://www.eglin.af.mil/News/Articl...vides-new-opt/
  • Published July 22, 2022
  • By Air Force Surgeon General Public Affairs

FALLS CHURCH, Va. (AFNS) -- The Air Force will soon have the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine available after the U.S Food and Drug Administration authorized it for emergency use and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention endorsed it as another primary series option for adults ages 18 years and older.

The Novavax COVID-19 vaccine, which will be available in the coming weeks, is a two-dose vaccine that presents a new option for those who have been hesitant to receive the FDA fully licensed and approved mRNA vaccines, Pfizer Cominarty and Moderna Spikevax.

One distinction from mRNA vaccines is that Novavax uses a traditional platform similar to other vaccines that Airmen and Guardians may have already received.

“Most Airmen and Guardians have already received vaccines using similar technology as the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine, like the hepatitis B vaccine, which is a Department of Defense requirement. Other vaccines produced with similar technology are the human papillomavirus vaccine and even one of the flu vaccines,” said Lt. Col. David Sayers, chief of preventive medicine, Air Force Medical Readiness Agency. “The Novavax COVID-19 vaccine uses technology that has been around since the 1980s. Not only do we have effectiveness and safety data from the Novavax clinical trials, but we also have decades of experience with this type of vaccine.”

In clinical trials performed before the emergence of the delta and omicron variants, Novavax was 90.4% effective in preventing mild, moderate or severe COVID-19 infections. Unvaccinated service members must receive the two doses, the primary series, taken at least 21 days apart to be considered fully vaccinated and meet the Department of Defense COVID-19 vaccine requirement.

Individuals who are in the process of seeking a religious accommodation exemption can elect to use any FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccination under emergency use or fully licensed vaccine, which now includes Novavax, at any point in the review process to comply with this vaccine requirement.

“Novavax may accommodate those with sincerely held beliefs who felt limited in their options with the previous vaccine offering,” said Maj. Gen. Sharon Bannister, medical operations director, Air Force Surgeon General.
………….
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Old 07-23-2022, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohlsan View Post
I know we will never agree on the legality of the order ( we will let the courts decide I guess) and I’m not going to change your mind, but this mandate is breaking the military, if they continue down the path we are on the military will never be the same. Morale is in the toilet, retention and recruiting numbers are the worse we have seen in 20 years.
I promise you, the vaccine mandate is not the reason main behind any of this. Morale, retention and recruiting were all down even before Covid came around, even during the Trump years there was no money for anything and we always had to make due with the bare minimum towards the end of the fiscal year. Pay raises aren't matching inflation, BAH doesn't cover rent, and PCS moves cost service members money, would you reenlist into that? Unless you're desperate to get out of the area you grew up in or are about to be homeless, the military really isn't attractive to most kids graduating HS now, they see the problems that people are leaving the military with and wisely choosing to pursue something else. This mandate is going to go over like the anthrax one did, the real issue is the political climate in America, and that's not going to get solved anytime soon. I just wonder if it's going to reach Civil War V.2 levels before it's all said and done.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:38 PM
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https://www.scribd.com/document/5844...oad&from_embed

The undermining of the chain of command continues….

https://www.scribd.com/document/5844...oad&from_embed
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Old 08-03-2022, 09:39 AM
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:29 AM
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:49 PM
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Default If you don’t like irony, ignore this…



😂😂😂
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