I've always considered the ANG / AFR
 

Hello everyone, it's time for the big first post!

I'm currently enrolled in a 4 year university majoring in Professional Flight Management. (Auburn University, maybe you've heard of it) Anywho, upon graduation I will have around 350 hours including around 50 multi. I will have received ratings for instrument, comm, multi, and potentially CFI. I haven't made my mind up if I want to try my hand at CFI'ing, but I've always loved the idea of flying military aircraft. I don't have any particular desire to insist upon flying fighters, I just want to fly. Period. I saw a previous thread with a similar question, but I'll try to give as much information about myself as possible.

I'm 21 years of age and will be a Junior come Spring 08'.

I've often feared that my vision will be a problem, as I see about 20/60 in each eye but correctable to 20/17. I also have a slight stigmatism in my left eye.

I have a great GPA right now which is hanging around 3.7ish (feel free to round up :D)

The last bit of criteria that I could see coming into play is the fact that I received a misdemeanor at the age of 20. :( I plead youthful offender (which I know matters absolutely zilch to people who have access to FBI files such as the military/airlines) and have absolutely NO other blemishes on my record. I have never been in an accident, never had a speeding/traffic ticket, and no other criminal activity whatsoever. (Yes, I will knock on wood at this point in time.)

Would anyone that considers themselves to be in the know provide their input on my chances of getting a pilot slot in the future? I've tried to be as detailed as possible, but if anyone needs to know anything else about myself I would be happy to answer their questions!

Thanks ahead of time!

BaronPete

Misdemeanor for what? In either case, if you interview be honest and don't make excuses for your past. You should have a good chance.

Nobody knows the end-all answer as to whether you'll get a slot or not, or what will be the determining factor as to why you didn't (if that should be the case). What you need to do from this point is finish your degree with a good gpa, and start looking into ANG/AFRES units that you have interest in (either for location or for the type of plane they operate). Also, start looking into the tests/physicals and all the other components that go into paving the path towards becoming and officer and going to flight school.
Having a blemish on your record isn't the end of the world. Having a DUI/DWI may be, but everyone has done something stupid when they were young and stupid. It's part of life and nobody is perfect. As for the vision thing, I believe 20/70 corrected to 20/20 is the tolerance for the Air Force, and there is always waivers... The only way you'll know whether you get a chance at flying for the military is if you try... all they can say is no.

Any other questions feel free to pm...

Slice, when you say interview, who/what interview for the ANG/AFR are you referring to?

As for the misdemeanor, I was with a group of people on Halloween that had some marijunana. In the interest of putting my best foot forward in an interview situation, I will accept all responsibility for my actions, regardless of fault, but in reality I was a victim of association and didn't know my rights at the time.

I understand that such a charge, albeit a small one, tends to brand someone as being morally unsound because it is a drug offense, but hopefully my high collegiate GPA, extracurricular background, flight time, and completion of an Professional Flight Management degree would demonstrate my dedication to aviation and that I'm not the type of person to be considered a liability.

Not to burst a bubble - but the whole marijuana might put a dent in any type of commision.

Actually, as long as you tell the truth and pass the pee test, you'll be fine. Lots of folks "experimented" during their school years. What sets them apart is that the experimentation ended before they applied to the USAF. The USAF/ANG zero tolerance stance is clear. What you did before you signed up is completely different. Having been in an ANG unit, we hired dudes for UPT with bigger blemishes. We figured they were young/stupid, they owned up to being young/stupid, and they were ultimately a great fit. Good luck.

Never heard of that. News to me, but good on 'em. Which unit are you in?

Baron...I don't what your specific situation was but I know several that have blemishes on their records and still have done well. I think it depends on the age and type of record though. I think you will have to get a moral offense waiver if it's anything that meets certain criteria...but that is a definite possibility if you "interview" well. By that I mean you look like you will be a dedicated productive member should the unit send you to training. Most things with the military are merely a pen stroke away but someone has to be motivated enough to start writing. EXCELLENT AFOQT scores, GPA, ability to pass physical, some flight training, etc. all enhance your chances of getting a slot. I've sat in on a few interviews and "well rounded" matters. I've seen some people with great backgrounds not get selected due to marginal AFOQT scores. Despite what you might read elsewhere, there are still plenty out there who will take a load of free flight training/chance to do the military thing etc. I can't speak for the Guard but the Reserves still have to send the applicants package through an objective board elsewhere and sometimes it's the AFOQT that burns an otherwise great candidate. Letters of Recommendation really help at that stage as well. You'll definitely want to keep a pristine record from now on though. Often if you do well a unit will invite you to come back and interview again. Most don't want to send too many to the board at once and will take the older one that has the least time left for training eligibility. As with all things government, don't let the paperwork scare you...heck I think I got in just because I kept filling out forms and being aggressive by calling and asking what was next:D Good luck!

also...that Auburn thing might hurt ya;)

Now that was just harsh...:( LOL

I assume you're referring to our loss last night to USF. I was quite upset at having attended that game. Recruits were there too....sigh

I admitted to smoking back in the day (I did not have a record). The only way it "hurt" me was in the aftermath of the walker espionage scandal they disqualified all past dope smokers from holding communications officer jobs (nuclear propulsion, nuclear weapons, command opportunity, etc were all not affected :rolleyes: ). I was actually pretty happy about not being assigned to COMMO...in fact the only JO onboard who had NOT smoked weed was a holier-than-thou pretentious p****k ....naturally he was not happy about becoming the permanent COMMO :D

Thanks for all the great responses guys! As soon as I'm able to PM I'll be shooting you guys a few more questions about the guard and reserves.

On that note, someone responded to my vision criteria of being about 20/60ish in each eye with a slight astigmatism in the left eye. Where can I find a military medical evaluation without having to sign any service agreements etc. How much would something of that nature cost?

BaronPete,

If you have any interest in civilian flying, definately get the CFI.

The ANG is the best way to do military flying if you also want to be an airline pilot. The ANG is good because you will not get involuntarily assigned to helicopter flying (which won't help your airline career much).

Start researching all of the requirements and the application process NOW...it's a complicated, drawn out process which will require a lot of initiative on your part (this actually helps to weed out the slackers).

Your vision is probably OK, but you will get a full medical during the process so you won'y for certain until then.

Your record won't disqualify you (be 100% honest!) but if there are other applicants who have clean records they may be considered first (or maybe not, hard to say for sure). The only way to find out is to apply.

Since pilot slots are normally competetive, here are some ideas to make yourself more attractive in your last two years:

- Get the GPA as high as possible, an engineer with a 3.5 beats a non-technical with a 3.7 as far as the UASF/Navy is concerned.

- Your flying counts as an extra-curricular activity, that's good. Other extra-c's such as clubs or volunteer work are good also (but don't let the GPA suffer.

- Get involved in some sort of sport (if not already). Intramural or off-campus stuff is fine.

- Any sort of leadership positions (sports team, clubs, even CFI).

- You will need letters of recomendation from teachers and people from your community (Doctor, etc). If you don't know any ex or current military officers, try to meet one. A letter from a military officer is weighted more heavily, because he/she should be able to judge whether you can handle what you're getting yourself into (a teacher may not have any idea about certain aspecxts of military service).

Rickair, I'm actually quite glad that you are contributing to this thread, as I have been wanting to pick your brain for sometime now in lurking these boards.

I'm majoring in Professional Flight Management because I want to fly professionally. I love doing it in spare time to, but nothing is more alluring to me than getting paid to do something that I cherish. Upon graduation, it is super easy to get a CFI position at the university (provided I get the rating) and I plan to do that for a year or so at least. I've only started seriously considering ANG because I want to fly aircraft that wouldn't ordinarily be available to the public. The thoughts started to pester me when I got some stick time in an aerobatic airplane the other day. I have never had so much fun in my life as to taking a plane vertical and rolling it.

As for the vision situation, I understand I will get a full medical during the process, but isn't that after I've already signed service contracts and such? I don't want to make agreements only to find that my vision is unacceptable and I have to become a mechanic or navigator. I just wish there was somewhere I could find out definitively once and for all.

As for the letters of recommendation and such go, I'm lucky enough to have two men that I consider to be second and third fathers to me who are airport directors of their respective airports. They know me front to back, side to side, and will go to bat for me in any walk of life.

Where would be a good place to start researching the application process and finding out what kind of package I'll need to get together. As I've stated, I'll graduate with about 350 hours flight time with about 50-60 of that being multi engine time. I'll have my commercial, instrument, multi, and CFI ratings.

Also Rickair, I'm like 20 some odd posts from being able to PM. Is there any way I can contact you instead of waiting out the posts? Instant Messaging, email, etc..just PM or something. I'm pretty sure I can still receive PM's, just not send them.

Thanks buddy and have a great Sunday!!!!

All military officer candidates get a physical BEFORE they actually join the military. In your case you will be able to apply for a pilot slot (and get the flight physical) before you commit to anything. If you do not complete pilot training, or fail a flight physical at some point AFTER getting your commission you may or may not be obligated to serve in a non-flying role (depends on your contract).


Pilots don't really have anything to do with airport managers. For military purposes you will want a letter from a (ex) military officer. For airline purposes you will want letters from professional pilots (preferably employed by the airline in question).

I'm not ANG...the best thing would be to find somebody who is who could walk you through that maze. The biggest step is finding, getting in touch with, and establishing a relationship with an ANG unit which may sponsor you. They may prefer people who are residents of their state, but the C-130 units at Charleston, WV and Cheyenne, WY may have difficulty finding enough locals due to being in the middle of nowhere.

Note: I believe that if you join the AFR you will be assigned an aircraft type (possibly helos) during flight school...I don't think you get to pick your squadron like in the ANG, which makes the ANG a very good deal.

There may be some info here: http://www.ang.af.mil/

I can't pmail you. I don't really want to post my email, I'll get spammed for sure.

Good point about the public posting of emails, I didn't consider that. I'll just ask now. I was reading the FAR about regulations on dui/drug convictions and the like. It seems it said something to the effect (don't have my book with me) of a drug charge warrants a suspension/denial of a medical for one year from the date of conviction.

I guess the question is do you think that will apply to me? I may have not read it correctly. I haven't received or applied for a medical yet, and my court date was in January. It isn't a large problem, but I was just trying to determine when, if not already, I would be eligible for my first class medical. Waiting until January is doable if I must though.

I realize I could just go and ask, but I'd rather not look so uninformed.

Hi Baronpete,
I'm in the same boat, but just a little ahead in the process. For me personally I was lucky enough to have two individuals give me detailed info on the process, but there is a lot of info online also... baseops.com has a forum like this where you can find out allll the info you want.
you'll want to go find an accessions officer, he's like the equivalent of a recruiter except he does officers instead of enlisted. he will give you a CRAPLOAD of paperwork to complete which seriously takes hours and hours so you want to get started on that! he can also set you up for a flight physical which I heard the units like to see when you apply to them because they know they're not hiring someone who will just end up DQing.
also, take the AFOQT and TBAS (which will give you a PCSM score) as soon as you can, and see how you do. these will better determine your chances and you will need them as part of your package. in fact, I took these even before I went to see the accessions officer so that he knew I was serious. Barnes and noble sells an ARCO study guide for the AFOQT. you can take these tests only twice, so you might want to study that ARCO book, but if you are reasonably intelligent there is no reason you shouldn't do well. I took mine at the local ROTC detachment.
as far as vision goes I have similar vision as you, with astigmatism. I heard and read a lot of conflicting info about vision, even from recruiters and base commanders alike (you'd think they'd know better) but the best things is to find the rule book and see what it says. I had someone at the ROTC detachment (when I dropped in there to take the test) look it up in one of their very thick books and it said 20/70 correctable to 20/20.
I think the hardest part is trying to contact the individual units and hustling yourself for an interview. That's the part where I'm stuck. My accessions officer gave me a list of units but half the phone numbers weren't even current.

Wow, kalyx! Thank you very much for the info man!

It's actually: www.baseops.net

I'm not exactly sure how that would apply to your medical application if you don't have one yet. I suspect they would be more lenient about something that happened before you started flying. You may want to contact the local FAA FSDO and ask them about that.

Wrong, AFR works EXACTLY like ANG, minus the State chain of command. You'll be taking away half your opportunities if you don't consider AFR.

Go to the Military forum on this site and there are many threads on the Guard & Reserve with a lot of input from those of us who are working two jobs.

Baron,

I was a 95 AM grad from Auburn. I just hired with CAL while I am at VT-35 (advanced multi-engine for AF C-130s) as an instructor. I faced the same decision as you did back in the day but I did not have the vision or incident that you have. I went active duty Marine Corps becuase they offered the spot. I imagine that you are looking at the 357th at MGM or with BHM? Bottom line with this, you need to show a lot of face time with the units to get accepted. They want to make sure that you are a good guy with long term potential with the unit. This is the biggest hurdle to cross.

As for the vision, Kalyx is right. You need to have 20/20 correctable. If not, RK is the only waiverable procedure for aviators and not Lasik.

Call over to Montgomery and ask a recruiter without going into too much detail about who you are and etc... about the weed use.

Also, see who is from AU over at the units and ask them questions while getting a little face time. Be more than happy to go over and hang out on a drill weekend. I may know a few guy there who can help answer your questions.

Best of luck and War Eagle!

flybynuts, always great to meet a Tiger!

Face time I can do. Definitely.

My vision is 20/20 or better with correction, but there's apparently a threshold of where a bad uncorrected vision will also disqualify. 20/70 it seems.

War Eagle

BaronPete,

Go to www.baseops.net, click on military pilot in the upper left corner, then click on military pilot forum in the upper right corner. There are different topics in the forum board, but the aviation medicine board has countless threads on vision requirements and and I believe has them permanently posted on the top of the board. However you can worry all you want about what the books say, but until you have a military doc say what your eyes are, you will not know. As someone mentioned earlier LASIK is disqualifying, I believe LASIK has recently been allowed(do not quote me on that though), From what you said about your eyes they should be okay the only prob you might have is the astigmatism but again only a military doc with be able to say. Easiest way I found to get the TBAS and AFOQT out of the way is, find the unit you really want to apply to, speak to the enlisted recruiter who can set you up with the AFOQT and TBAS. Then once this was out of the way, talk with and get familiar with who hires for UPT, get your application package in and wait for an interview. (This applies to the Guard) Each unit has a little bit different way they want the application package put together, but once you get the first one together it will be much easier to get others together for other units. About your conviction problem I have no idea about how that will affect you process. If you get on the baseops forum there should be someone on there who has done UPT hiring boards and may have an idea how it will affect you, its probably on an individual basis though. On the baseops site there is a link for jobs, here a lot of units around the country post contact names and email addresses as well as if they are hiring. Also http://www.ang.af.mil is good, you can look up contact info for most units through this page. For the reserves just call the main 1800 # for Air Force recruiting and ask for who is in charge of hiring for the reserve units. They will be able to tell you who needs people and can give you their contact names. Good luck.