Notices
Military Military Aviation

Military Retirement

Old 01-18-2008, 03:51 PM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 662
Default

evil - pls do post that article. i'm anxious to hear how far off my numbers are.
webecheck is offline  
Old 01-18-2008, 05:44 PM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
EvilGN's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: C-130
Posts: 381
Default

Ok here's the numbers for the various airlines' data they used.

In order from best to worst

First number listed will be the Military Retirement + Airline, second number is if you get out at 8-10 years and go airline
All numbers are in Millions
UPS 10/14
UAL 7.5/10
FDX 9.5/11.5
AAL 7.5/9.5
Atran 7/8
DAL 7/8
AVERAGE 7/8

USAir 6.5/7.5
NWA 6/6.25
AS?? 6.5/6.75
CAL 6.5/6.5
SWA 7/6.5
FRONT 6.1/5.75
JB 5.75/5

Now these numbers I believe are based off of taking the bonus and retiring as a CDR for those that stay in, and doing the reserve thing if you get out. I also believe these numbers are based off of age 60 retirements, not 65, which I would think would skew them toward getting out early because of longevity, but I could be wrong.

I also think a lot of the numbers involve A/B funds and I am clueless toward all that info.

Here comes the disclaimer, DO NOT BASE YOUR DECISION OFF OF MY POST!
Please do your own research using current/projected pay tables

Also, I am sure Kit Darby or Rob Black at Air-Inc would love to discuss this if you were to call them

I hope this info is helpful
EvilGN is offline  
Old 01-19-2008, 03:36 AM
  #13  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: H-60 & SEL aircraft...both seats
Posts: 15
Default

" Here comes the disclaimer, DO NOT BASE YOUR DECISION OFF OF MY POST!
Please do your own research using current/projected pay tables"

Evil, are you kidding me...I take any information (accurate or not) and present it to my wife like it is gospel as long as it supports my decision to get out!

Thanks for the info., very helpful. I was working retirement figures last night (deployed, lots of time) and am convinced you can never be 100% sure. So many factors influence you retirement pay...it is almost impossible to be certain what is a better choice.

The problem is the military provides you a comfort zone for 10-11yrs. If you are willing to accept the financial risk, you may come out on top?
H60 guy is offline  
Old 01-19-2008, 09:22 PM
  #14  
China Visa Applicant
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: IPZ to Mr.
Posts: 1,915
Default

I think the numbers above may paint an inaccurate picture simply because of inclusion in A/B funds. While that was definitely a player pre 9/11, it may not be a factor in the decision now.

Here are my numbers from another thread:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...28&postcount=4
(complete thread at http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=14632)

Here are threads where those numbers are discussed at Airwarriors.com and FI:

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/sho...=138811&page=4
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=107264

Finally, here are screencaps of the spreadsheets used to calculate the numbers.

O-4 Retired:


O-5 Retired:


Out at 10 years:


Note that this assumes an on-time captain upgrade, even though we all know that 65 is going to make that slip to the right a little.
Hacker15e is offline  
Old 01-19-2008, 09:25 PM
  #15  
China Visa Applicant
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: IPZ to Mr.
Posts: 1,915
Default

Originally Posted by H60 guy View Post
The problem is the military provides you a comfort zone for 10-11yrs. If you are willing to accept the financial risk, you may come out on top?
All it takes is a single bankruptcy or furlough at your chosen airline for this to be so.
Hacker15e is offline  
Old 01-20-2008, 02:08 AM
  #16  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DA-40
Posts: 290
Default

Just a little info for people looking at the figures and trying to make a decision---here are my numbers after almost 5 years retired.....remember these figures are just info to help you guys make a decision to stay in or get out --- kinda like I was at year 8 then 11 then 14 then 20

Great job with the tables, Hacker15e!!!

Hacker15e's figures are very accurate to my actual experience; but remember the military tax advantage. It's "real" and civilian taxes BITE hard!!!!

Your figures are pretty close to "my" reality, because my life is following your model shown above. One thing you left out on the military side is that tax advantage of BAH/BAQ (to the tune of over 26K per year) and the state tax advantage.

The figures add about 20K to the miltary income (ie 140K at Lt Col at 20). So to have the same amount of "take home" pay you have in the military, you'd have to be making 140K the last year ..... (have to compare apples to apples).... this also DOES NOT include the state tax bite.

Also the pay you projected for year one and year 2 is higher in the airlines is higher than my actual ..... actual was 28K year 1 W-2 (plus 40k retirement) and 65K year 2 (plus 40K retirement).....

Year 3 however, was 112K PLUS 42K retirement (total of 154K)....
Year 4-5 is now getting very very close, just about 10-15K more in reality (probably due to extra flying that's currently available at my company).
I'm at year 5 airline now.

And my take home pay at 154K (all taxable plus union dues, insurance, etc) is LESS than I was making as a Lt Col 5 years ago (at the lower rate)....Acutally, it's pretty close to the same but a couple of hundred less military take home.

I was looking at Hacker's tables and noticed he abbreviated Maj as MAJ.... OK trivia question for the military types---can't answer if you've been a staff puke at the pentagon----- What is the difference between a Maj and a MAJ?
What's the difference between a Lt Col, a LTCOL, and an LTC?
Bonus: What about a Capt, a CAPT, and a CPT? (Military, not airline).
MalteseX is offline  
Old 01-20-2008, 02:57 AM
  #17  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: H-60 & SEL aircraft...both seats
Posts: 15
Default

Maltese..in my world the only difference is lower case vs upper case and a few extra letters. Obviously, I have never been a top performer! Educate us "non-staff" (and proud of it!!) types. I can make the last statement for another month or two....*******!!

Curious, how long does it take to upgrade to FO/CPT. Ex: If I went to a regional (Air Wisconsin..hopefully) what should I use for a planning figure for the increase in pay? I understand this is completely dependent on individual performance and multiple other factors, just looking for something to plan off.

Thanks again for all the great posts!
H60 guy is offline  
Old 01-20-2008, 03:38 AM
  #18  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DA-40
Posts: 290
Default

Originally Posted by Hacker15e View Post
All it takes is a single bankruptcy or furlough at your chosen airline for this to be so.
Originally Posted by H60 guy View Post
Maltese..in my world the only difference is lower case vs upper case and a few extra letters. Obviously, I have never been a top performer! Educate us "non-staff" (and proud of it!!) types. I can make the last statement for another month or two....*******!!

Curious, how long does it take to upgrade to FO/CPT. Ex: If I went to a regional (Air Wisconsin..hopefully) what should I use for a planning figure for the increase in pay? I understand this is completely dependent on individual performance and multiple other factors, just looking for something to plan off.

Thanks again for all the great posts!
OK this is ALL that I learned at my 2.5 years on the Air Staff.
Maj -- AF or USMC Major
MAJ -- Army Major
Lt Col -- AF Lt Col
LTCOL or LtCol -- USMC LtCol
LTC -- Army LTC
Capt -- AF or USMC Capt (O-3)
CPT -- Army Captain (O-3)
CAPT -- Navy Captain (O-6)

I don't know how many times I p$ssed off a Navy O-6 before I learned that!

Second question... I have a buddy at Air Wisconsin and he said it's taking about 2 to 2.5 years to upgrade currently ....
But with the age 65 rule that just went into effect, the entire industry could see increased times--that's the big unknown
MalteseX is offline  
Old 01-20-2008, 04:44 AM
  #19  
Gets Weekends Off
 
fishalaska's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Bidding Time Off
Posts: 169
Default

Big Picture:

In the end you will make enough money at ANY place and the long term comparisons are not very good. The real question is what do you want to do for the next (add in 5 years more) years of your life? Assumptions (like I will get hired by brand X at the 20 years point) are not good due to hiring changes that switch in weeks not years. Find something that makes you and your significant other happy and go for it. Another man's pain is your happy place and vice versa.

Fish
fishalaska is offline  
Old 01-20-2008, 05:43 AM
  #20  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 662
Default

hacker 15e - your figures look very close to what i used. i also added in the mil tax advantages as actual dollar amounts and figured out the interest on the opportunity cost of 1: the lost earnings of not taking the bonus and while suffering thru the airlines the first couple years and 2: the lost earnings which you will experience the first 5 years as an airline capt versus the last few years as a passed over major in my case

in the end, it depends on who hires you as to whether or not you make more $. but, there is one thing you can count on airtran not making you do....teach at the iraqi air force academy for 365.
webecheck is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
N261ND
Flight Schools and Training
22
09-12-2008 07:57 PM
Herc130AV8R
Military
25
03-22-2008 05:22 PM
BIGBROWNDC8
Cargo
7
10-22-2007 03:33 PM
mtsupilot09
Military
34
03-11-2006 05:20 AM
av8r4aa
Major
14
07-08-2005 06:50 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices