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Need advice...Got AD and Reserve UPT slots

Old 01-31-2008, 01:26 PM
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Default Need advice...Got AD and Reserve UPT slots

After 6 years in the AF as a non-rated dude I finally received a necessary medical waiver and am now pilot qualified. I’ve been lucky enough to get a reserve UPT slot to fly airlift (C-5’s) and am stoked to have this awesome opportunity. However, even before I applied to reserve/ANG units, I put in an application for the annual active duty UPT board to try all possible avenues. The board results came out today and I got a slot, so now I have to make a tough decision between two great opportunities: reserves vs AD.

The reserve lifestyle really appeals to me (homesteading, no staff tours, quicker path to the airlines, etc) however going active duty offers the chance to compete for a pointy-nose jet, which has always been a dream. All of my friends that fly heavies say to go the reserve route while my friends flying fighters say to role the dice with active duty to maybe get a fighter. Given that I’ll have 7 years under my belt when I finish UPT and incur the 10 year commitment, if I go active duty I’ll obviously be in for 20 years. I’d like to stay in the cockpit as long as possible with the goal of eventually ending up in the airlines. I’ve read enough posts indicating it’s financially a wash between retiring from active duty and then flying with an airline or getting with a reserve unit early and getting seniority quicker (but no active duty retirement). One person’s advice that resonated with me was, “this will be your one and only chance to fly a fighter while the airlines will always be there.” But that’s countered by what seems to be a much better quality of life in the reserves.

I’d really appreciate anyone’s opinion as to what route I should take. Thanks!!
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PTWOB View Post
After 6 years in the AF as a non-rated dude I finally received a necessary medical waiver and am now pilot qualified. I’ve been lucky enough to get a reserve UPT slot to fly airlift (C-5’s) and am stoked to have this awesome opportunity. However, even before I applied to reserve/ANG units, I put in an application for the annual active duty UPT board to try all possible avenues. The board results came out today and I got a slot, so now I have to make a tough decision between two great opportunities: reserves vs AD.

The reserve lifestyle really appeals to me (homesteading, no staff tours, quicker path to the airlines, etc) however going active duty offers the chance to compete for a pointy-nose jet, which has always been a dream. All of my friends that fly heavies say to go the reserve route while my friends flying fighters say to role the dice with active duty to maybe get a fighter. Given that I’ll have 7 years under my belt when I finish UPT and incur the 10 year commitment, if I go active duty I’ll obviously be in for 20 years. I’d like to stay in the cockpit as long as possible with the goal of eventually ending up in the airlines. I’ve read enough posts indicating it’s financially a wash between retiring from active duty and then flying with an airline or getting with a reserve unit early and getting seniority quicker (but no active duty retirement). One person’s advice that resonated with me was, “this will be your one and only chance to fly a fighter while the airlines will always be there.” But that’s countered by what seems to be a much better quality of life in the reserves.

I’d really appreciate anyone’s opinion as to what route I should take. Thanks!!
AD should keep you in the "cockpit" for a long time flying that UAV.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:21 PM
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Guard/reserve all the way...it will keep you in a cockpit and your QOL will be better! Try for a guard fighter if you really want one.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:32 PM
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sounds like you said it yourself. You want to eventually fly for the airlines. AD duty isn't the quick route, nor is it a guarantee that you'll "stay in the cockpit" as you said. The reserves is your best bet for staying in the cockpit and chasing that airline gig. With the reserves, you are guaranteed the base and the plane. AD is a crapshoot, and if you don't excel in UPT, you may find yourself flying a tanker out of somewhere you'd rather not be (not that there's anything wrong with tankers)
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
you may find yourself flying a tanker out of somewhere you'd rather not be (not that there's anything wrong with tankers)
Or worse, an AD C-5 when he had one in the reserves!
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:12 PM
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My experience is that a lot of the late-rated pilots have a very hard time trying to get the flying hours. Sure, you'll meet your gate months, but plan on flying about 5 hours per month and never really getting a chance to learn the jet like the LTs who fly a lot more. And if you were competitive enough to get picked up for pilot training at the 7 year point, then you probably have a lot of OPR stratification that will get you some awesome jobs - wing plans, command post, ORI prep office, wing exec.

If you want a career and make O-6... stay active duty.

If you want to fly a ton and get a lot of PIC time sooner... reserves.

The only caveat is that funding in the reserves is tricky. I'm not in the reserves yet, but my hometown unit is out of money and doesn't really support keeping guys on active duty orders and flying a ton. They seem to want guys to work their 6 days per month and little more.

Good luck.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:59 PM
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Since I want to have realistic expectations on an active duty flying career, that's the exact type of advice I was hoping for, thanks! Rank's not that important to me. I'm going to be so late rated that my career will be pretty limited. I'd be happy to retire as an O-5 if I could stay flying longer.

A friend who's a Viper driver said if I got -16's, the best I could hope for would be the 1-year remote to Korea, followed by a 3-yr ops tour, then possibly back to the B-course to instruct. That would give me about 7 years in the jet. Then maybe I could instruct T-38's or T-6's at a UPT base to finish up my career. Does that sound likely?

For the active duty heavy side, what would be the best path to stay flying? MWS tour, then teach white jets, then try to get back to the MWS?

If UAV's, ORI prep, etc is the only thing I have to look forward to, then going down the reserve path will be a no brainer.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:03 PM
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With your desire of becoming an airline pilot I would highly consider AFRES. 10 years is a long time to commit and alot of senority #'s passed with an airline should you elect AD. Even if the alure of flying fighters suits you more, you may investigate the possibility of going reserve then crossflowing to a fighter sqd after you spend a little time in the C-5. I don't know if there are age limitations, but it may be an option.

I separated from AD in July and would submit that working when I so desire as a traditional reservist is priceless. Airline flying is a job, but when I truly want to have fun, I head to the sqd to fly w/ my buds. If your unit becomes thin on funds and you want to remain on orders, you may need to get creative to get paid (i.e. deploy w/ the active duty, tactics, stage, etc.).

IMO, if you elected the AD route, I think MWS - White Jets - MWS is totally conceivable. MWS-MWS-MWS is a posibility too. The main challenge will be stiff arming that UAV and non-flying billet that crewdogs despise most. Congrats and good luck!
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:27 PM
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I'm currently at Sheppard flying T-37's after a 3 yr tour at Aviano and 1 year at Kunsan. Teaching the B course is by no means automatic and once you're out of the jet, it can be difficult to go back. Currently, AFPC is turning away people for a TX course to get requaled b/c the B couse is soaking up all the jets and IPs at Luke. Also, last week a 2 star from Randolph said the LTs in UPT and ENJJPT would start getting direct entry into the Predator or SOF pilatus aircraft. Once you go that route, it is a one way bus ticket w/ no return (at least for the guys right out of UPT or that get screwed in TAMI 21). W/ fighter cockpits dropping from the BRAC and the fact there are way less F-22s than F-15s, it's becoming more difficult to get into fighters. They are even taking inexperienced fighter guys and sending them to the Predator / SOF program too (TAMI 21). Until you get 500 hours in a fighter (in most cases) you are inexperienced on the qualification letter and then are eligible to meet the TAMI 21 board until they stop that process. AF needs...
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:45 PM
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It sounds to me like you are asking a little more than reserves vs active. If it was that simple, I'd say reserves all the way (I'm a reservist now after 13 yrs active) for all the reasons the other dudes listed...if you are happy with the C-5 job.

It sounds to me (and I could be wrong) like you are asking if it is worth chasing your lifelong dream to fly fast jets. The short answer is hell yes. If all your life you've dreamed of going upside down and pulling g's and gunning bad guys, then you will NEVER be fully satisfied unless you at least gave it a shot. You will be the dude at airshows who looks up and wonders "what if." That's no way to live your life...that is, IF it is a SERIOUS dream of yours, not just a "that would be kinda cool" kind of dream. It may not work out, so there is definitely risk involved, however. But at least you will have tried if that's what you really want.

There is absolutely no comparison to how fun flying a fighter is versus flying a heavy airplane in my opinion. Not even close. A fighter can be so much fun you can't stand it. Admittedly, it becomes routine after a while and you have to stop and smell the roses, but so does anything you do everyday. But I haven't flown fast since Nov and I miss it right now something fierce.

And I will say that pointy jets aren't for everyone by a long shot. You will work long days, live in a very competetive world, and do a lot of things other than fly, some of which are not very fun. You have to be very dedicated or you will be miserable. But those are easy prices for me to pay to do what I (sometimes) do because I love it. Other people feel differently.

Heavy flying is enjoyable, but different. It's fun, but never exhilarating. Trust me, I've done both (new airline guy, not military heavies though).

On your other points...don't worry about ORI prep and promotions and queep and UAVs. Don't worry about airlines and possible career paths and how many flying tours you can get in a row. There's nothing you can do about it now and things are changing so fast right now they will all be different by the time it matters to you anyway. You are going to find BS no matter what avenue you choose. You aren't immune to it in the reserves and you aren't immune to it in heavies. At least place your strongest consideration into what type of flying you want to do. If you want to fly heavies and see the world, fantastic. Have fun. If your priority is stability and homesteading and the reserves gives you that...I completely understand that, brother. You'll note I'm now in the reserves.

If those aren't your priorities, well...flying is about chasing your dreams, isn't it? Might be worth hanging it out there for a shot at your dreams. There is a reason you applied for a pilot slot after 6 years AD when you could already be out...and I'll bet it isn't because you want to eventually be an airline pilot.
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