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L'il J.Seinfeld 02-03-2006 07:04 PM

USAFR Pay
 
I wish someone had explained this to me before I got off AD. I got my dream job at UPS, but the USAFR is saving me right now. My first year pay at UPS is $800 after taxes every 2 weeks. In the USAFR I can easily make 3k a month. I do not claim to be an expert, but this is how I understand the system works. I am sure others will correct any mistakes I may have included.

There are 5 ways to get paid working in the reserves.

TP Training period TP is a 4 hour block where you get paid 1/30th of your monthly base pay plus 1/30th of your flight pay. You do not get housing or subsistence. There are two types of TPs; flight and ground. You can do two flight TPs in a single day. That's how you get paid for 2 days and only work 1. You can also do a ground and flight TP but not 2 ground TPs in the same calendar day. You are allocated 48 TPs in a year and you can only do 16 per quarter. You do not have to complete all of your TPs.

Annual Tour Day You have 15 days of annual tour to do. You can break them up however you wish and they are paid the same as if you were on active duty.

Man Day There are two types of man days and they are Reserve and Military. Military is when the active duty needs help and pays the Reserve member. A man day is paid as if you were on active duty i.e. 1/30th of your basic pay plus BAH, fly pay and any other allowances. A man day would be used for sitting Alert, getting you PHA done, or travelling on a TDY to get your alt chamber renewed. Reserve Man days are what get curtailed when money gets tight.

RUMP I forget what it stands for. It is a 4 hour block where you get paid 1/60th of your base pay and fly pay. It involves doing special non-mission related duties such as Awards and Decs. The limit is 24 and you can do 2 Rumps in 1 day.

UTA UTA days are the best. Units have a UTA weekend every month. They count as 4 TPs so you get paid for 4 days while working 2. You can also reschedule them if you can't make the scheduled unit UTA.

So if your goal was to make as much money as possible without taking a deployment you would at least be able to do the following:
48 UTA TPs (12 months X 4 TPs=48pay days)
15 Annual Tour Days
48 TPs
24 Rumps=12 pay days

That totals 123 pay days. There are unlimited man days right now if you accept a deployment. Under federal law you can miss work at your civilian job in order to do mil duty. I ususally do 8-10 days a month with the Reserves. That means I get 15-20 USAFR paydays. Once I get to second year pay (assuming we get a FedEx-type contract) I would lose money if I took mil leave and will probably only do the UTA weekend and one flight per month in order to maximize time at home. Each pay day you get counts as 1 point towards your retirement. You get 1 point for every day you spent on AD. Right now an O-5 retirement pays something like 45 cents per point per month and starts at age 60.

Thank God for the USAFR. As much as I hated the AD and the corrupt leadership, I love the reserves and the folks in the unit. It's amazing how much you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.

TankerDriver 02-03-2006 07:42 PM

Good post L'il. Sounds similar to the ANG. I'm assuming it's the same? I'm looking to Palace Chase to the guard and it looks like I will probably need to get a civilian flying job also. I agree 110% with you about AD. Of course, the money will be hard to leave. As an O-2, deployed as much as I am, I'm bringing in over $60k a year, plus the cost of benefits. It's not too shabby, but I'm willing to take a pay cut to leave.

Barrel Roll 135 11-08-2007 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld (Post 15846)
I wish someone had explained this to me before I got off AD. I got my dream job at UPS, but the USAFR is saving me right now. My first year pay at UPS is $800 after taxes every 2 weeks. In the USAFR I can easily make 3k a month. I do not claim to be an expert, but this is how I understand the system works. I am sure others will correct any mistakes I may have included.

There are 5 ways to get paid working in the reserves.

TP Training period TP is a 4 hour block where you get paid 1/30th of your monthly base pay plus 1/30th of your flight pay. You do not get housing or subsistence. There are two types of TPs; flight and ground. You can do two flight TPs in a single day. That's how you get paid for 2 days and only work 1. You can also do a ground and flight TP but not 2 ground TPs in the same calendar day. You are allocated 48 TPs in a year and you can only do 16 per quarter. You do not have to complete all of your TPs.

Annual Tour Day You have 15 days of annual tour to do. You can break them up however you wish and they are paid the same as if you were on active duty.

Man Day There are two types of man days and they are Reserve and Military. Military is when the active duty needs help and pays the Reserve member. A man day is paid as if you were on active duty i.e. 1/30th of your basic pay plus BAH, fly pay and any other allowances. A man day would be used for sitting Alert, getting you PHA done, or travelling on a TDY to get your alt chamber renewed. Reserve Man days are what get curtailed when money gets tight.

RUMP I forget what it stands for. It is a 4 hour block where you get paid 1/60th of your base pay and fly pay. It involves doing special non-mission related duties such as Awards and Decs. The limit is 24 and you can do 2 Rumps in 1 day.

UTA UTA days are the best. Units have a UTA weekend every month. They count as 4 TPs so you get paid for 4 days while working 2. You can also reschedule them if you can't make the scheduled unit UTA.

So if your goal was to make as much money as possible without taking a deployment you would at least be able to do the following:
48 UTA TPs (12 months X 4 TPs=48pay days)
15 Annual Tour Days
48 TPs
24 Rumps=12 pay days

That totals 123 pay days. There are unlimited man days right now if you accept a deployment. Under federal law you can miss work at your civilian job in order to do mil duty. I ususally do 8-10 days a month with the Reserves. That means I get 15-20 USAFR paydays. Once I get to second year pay (assuming we get a FedEx-type contract) I would lose money if I took mil leave and will probably only do the UTA weekend and one flight per month in order to maximize time at home. Each pay day you get counts as 1 point towards your retirement. You get 1 point for every day you spent on AD. Right now an O-5 retirement pays something like 45 cents per point per month and starts at age 60.

Thank God for the USAFR. As much as I hated the AD and the corrupt leadership, I love the reserves and the folks in the unit. It's amazing how much you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.

This post is pretty old and I've decided to revive it since it's so great. Does anyone else out there have any tips on maximizing pay or just some good ol' knowledge and making the system work for you? I just started at my new C-130 unit and from what I hear, there are some guys out there that have the system down to a science.

reCALcitrant 11-08-2007 06:49 PM


Originally Posted by Barrel Roll 135 (Post 260084)
This post is pretty old and I've decided to revive it since it's so great. Does anyone else out there have any tips on maximizing pay or just some good ol' knowledge and making the system work for you? I just started at my new C-130 unit and from what I hear, there are some guys out there that have the system down to a science.


Burn up all your UTA's and TP's as fast as you can. All other time request man days. If they need you and you have used all your UTA's and TP's, they have to give you AD days. Also, if you live out of town from your reserve unit, you get paid a travel day in and out. I.E. Monday-travel to unit (mileage plus per diem plus AD day. Tuesday-Thursday AD. Friday-Travel. Same as before. This means 5 days of AD pay for 3 days at the unit. Of course you are traveling on the other days. Also, using UTA's and TP's together makes billeting easier. Always on a 40A and no money on the charge card. On the Man days you get per diem, file a travel voucher, and get reimbursed. Makes the paperwork simpler. Hope this helps.

Stella 11-09-2007 05:38 AM

Thanks for reviving this post Barrel roll 135. This is a great post. Nobody ever tells you this stuff while your on active duty.

REAL Pilot 11-09-2007 06:35 AM


Originally Posted by Stella (Post 260570)
Thanks for reviving this post Barrel roll 135. This is a great post. Nobody ever tells you this stuff while your on active duty.


Thats because its on a need to know basis.:)

Rocco 11-09-2007 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld (Post 15846)

Thank God for the USAFR. As much as I hated the AD and the corrupt leadership, I love the reserves and the folks in the unit. It's amazing how much you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.

You are right about taking credit. Amazing what levels some people will go to for a "moment" in the sun.

Wont ever hear of anyone talking of the reserves. Very well kept secret. May change though, with the "right sizing", "force shaping"...er what ever...that is going on right now. Paying pensions and medical benefits for 40+ years is something the DOD is trying to get out of.

I guess you did not get the VSP:mad:

L'il J.Seinfeld 11-09-2007 11:39 AM

I actually left the USAFR last fall. I felt a little guilty, but only for a moment, for using the unit to feed my family that probation year. I decided that the USAF got a lot out of me and my fmaily sacrificed through the deployments and "using" the USAFR for the money was something I could live with. But in the end I could not commit to the unit the way you need to in order to serve.

Rocco 11-09-2007 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld (Post 260790)
I actually left the USAFR last fall. I felt a little guilty, but only for a moment, for using the unit to feed my family that probation year. I decided that the USAF got a lot out of me and my fmaily sacrificed through the deployments and "using" the USAFR for the money was something I could live with. But in the end I could not commit to the unit the way you need to in order to serve.


Did you just leave or go IRR?

L'il J.Seinfeld 11-10-2007 06:50 PM

IRR with no intention of going back to being a drilling reservist.

vinkir 11-11-2007 03:07 AM

I know you don't get paid for IRR, but do you get retirement points? Is there any reason to be IRR beyond you have to or you want to?

sigtauenus 11-11-2007 06:04 AM

You can still get enough points IRR to get the reserve retirement, but you are basically coasting on the active time you already have. 50 pts a year doesn't really add up to much of an increase in the retirement check.

Any inputs as to how similar the Navy or Marine reserve pay works? Is it the same?

blastoff 11-11-2007 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by vinkir (Post 261455)
I know you don't get paid for IRR, but do you get retirement points? Is there any reason to be IRR beyond you have to or you want to?

Do you still have an ID with all the BX/Commissary benefits while IRR? My wife wants to know.

L'il J.Seinfeld 11-11-2007 06:10 PM

Yes, you can keep your ID card. If you are IRR and in the NARS, which stands for non-affiliated Reserve Service, you have a 2 year period in which to find a "IRR" job. If you don't my understanding is is that they will discharge you. I had more than 8 years to go and picking up a few hot standby's paid way more than the reserves. It was a hard choice but I really enjoy my down time and not commuting to the reserve squadron.

ipdanno 11-13-2007 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld (Post 261769)
... It was a hard choice but I really enjoy my down time and not commuting to the reserve squadron.

Thank you for your service to the nation. :)

14+ yrs AD, and 8+ yrs reserve, mostly on continuous active orders. I postponed the civilian job search until recently, and will get an "active duty" retirement [NOW, not at 60]. For me this was the right call, especially since I live 15 miles from my unit. The folks that commute to the reserves have a much tougher time managing family life. And if your civilian job takes you away from home also, that is killer.

Several former unit reservists maintain their affiliation/points-building by serving with the Civil Air Patrol, or as Air Liaison Officers (ALO). I think most of that work can be done in the local region, without needing to be gone from home. Occasional driving to meetings/interviews.

Just a thought, but either way, thanks for your service.

beis77 03-25-2008 10:43 AM

How many points do you need to qualify for retirement? I'll have 10 years AD in when I punch out and go Reserves; thanks!

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-25-2008 12:15 PM

Points & Retirement
 
You don't need points to retire; you need:

1. 20 total years. That's your active and Reserve/Guard combined.

2. A minimum number of years in the Guard or Reserve. When I became a Reservist, it was 6 years in the Reserve component. I don't know if that has changed or not.

The Importance of Points:

The more points you accumulate, the more money you get at age 60 when you draw your first retirement check (assuming you are not a full-time AGR guy). AGRs get their money immediately after retiring.

Formula:

A 20-year active-duty career is deemed 7200 days of work. Each day is 1 point.

When you retire from the Guard/Reserve, divide your total points by 7200.

That is the fraction of the regular active-duty retirement you will receive.

(BTW, I had 15.5 years when I punched--now have 25+).

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-25-2008 12:22 PM

Navy & Marine Reserve Retirement
 
Navy & Marines work the same way; it's Federal-Law driven.

You get Military Medical (space-available) when you turn 60.

By the Way: my comments previous were for paid-drilling guys. If you are IRR, you need the 50 points a year to make it a "Good Year." If you only earn 49, they all go away, and the year doesn't count for either your 20 total OR 6 in the component.

beis77 03-25-2008 03:58 PM

UAL, that's great info. Thanks!

DILLA 03-30-2008 06:10 AM

I have read a lot written about regional pilots who also fly for the AF Reserve or ANG and how the combined pay is enough to live off...but what about the Army Reserves? Are there any regional folks here who fly for the Army Reserve?? If so, have you been comfortably been able to support yourselves with Army Reserve pay combined with the regionals? I have compared officer pay tables on the internet between the AFRes and the Army Res. and there seems to be a 10:1 ratio between to two. Am I looking at the wrong information.

Don't get me wrong, the pay would not deter me from serving my country, but I would like to know if I will be able to support my family and pay bills.

Thanks for any info.

blastoff 03-30-2008 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by DILLA (Post 351420)
I have compared officer pay tables on the internet between the AFRes and the Army Res. and there seems to be a 10:1 ratio between to two. Am I looking at the wrong information.

Probably...I believe Drill pay is Drill pay..its a federal pay scale not just an Air Force pay scale. One thing the AF probably has that the Army doesn't is "Training Periods" or TP's (pronounced "teeps"), which gets you an extra couple days a month (8 per quarter) at drill pay.

Chris99 03-30-2008 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by sigtauenus (Post 261491)
You can still get enough points IRR to get the reserve retirement, but you are basically coasting on the active time you already have. 50 pts a year doesn't really add up to much of an increase in the retirement check.

Any inputs as to how similar the Navy or Marine reserve pay works? Is it the same?

I had nine years of AD when I took the VSP last year. How many years of IRR does it take to "earn" a retirement? Do you have to do a liason job to earn points, or just be in the IRR and do nothing? I have a three year commitment in the IRR and then I don't know what happens, but my ID card says "INDEF." What other "IRR jobs" are available? I'm in Colorado BTW.

Chris

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-30-2008 12:20 PM

IRR and Retirement
 
Chris 99:

You need 11 "Good Years." Any service should work the same, because as Blastoff said, it is all Federal pay-scale.

Good years:

You would need to earn at least 50 points a year. You get 15 for being alive, BUT, they don't count for retirement pay!! Depending upon your duty status, you usually get 1 pt per pay-period. However, pay periods can be 4 hours (TPs or UTA), or 8 hours (Annual Training (AT), or Man-Power Authorizations (MPA).

TPs don't always earn points, though. You only get 24 from TPs a year. Any other TPs you get paid for the day, but it doesn't build retirement points.

Assuming you retire as a Capt / O-3, each 50-pt year will increase your monthly retirement check by about $15.00. This is a guess only, but I would say O-3 retirement pay (in today's dollars) is about $900-1000/mo.

So yes, you WOULD need to "work" to get those additional points to make it a Good Year.

Bear in mind that you don't get any money from retirement until you turn 60. There are continuing attempts to reduce this based upon length of service, or number of deployments to crap-holes. So far, all shot down because it costs too much.

But at least Congress voted themselves a raise.

This discussion is about guys who are drilling and getting paid. I'm not certain how it works in the IRR--I think you work on a volunteer basis for points-only.

Slice 03-30-2008 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Chris99 (Post 351623)
I had nine years of AD when I took the VSP last year. How many years of IRR does it take to "earn" a retirement? Do you have to do a liason job to earn points, or just be in the IRR and do nothing? I have a three year commitment in the IRR and then I don't know what happens, but my ID card says "INDEF." What other "IRR jobs" are available? I'm in Colorado BTW.

Chris

Don't you have to pay the VSP back if you decide to take a guard retirement? It may not be worth the money and ass pain if you invest it wisely now.

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-30-2008 02:16 PM

VSP Buyout
 
Slice:

Good point--I think the buyout does pre-empt the retirement.

Best bet: call the closest MPF, and if you want to get a straight answer, call the MPF for a Reserve unit. Try Buckley (the Guard F-16 squadron), or Peterson (Herc Reserve unit, I think).

GunnF16 03-30-2008 07:19 PM

My wife used to be a MX officer and has her first IRR muster duty (head count) in 3 weeks. She hasn't heard of "IRR" jobs, but if we find anything out about how what it takes to get 50 points, we'll let you know.

Chris99 03-31-2008 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by GunnF16 (Post 351919)
My wife used to be a MX officer and has her first IRR muster duty (head count) in 3 weeks. She hasn't heard of "IRR" jobs, but if we find anything out about how what it takes to get 50 points, we'll let you know.

Thanks Gunn. I haven't had to do a "muster," but I've heard of others who have. Do you get extra points for those?

I was thinking of looking into a USAFA/CAP liason job that wouldn't require any time away from home as I already spend two weeks a month on the road. I just didn't know if I could collect a retirement without even getting those jobs. Family time is really important to me, not the retirement money.

Slice, I'm not worried about paying back the VSP upon retirement because it will already be paid back with VA pay...

Chris99 03-31-2008 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 351691)
Slice:

Good point--I think the buyout does pre-empt the retirement.

Best bet: call the closest MPF, and if you want to get a straight answer, call the MPF for a Reserve unit. Try Buckley (the Guard F-16 squadron), or Peterson (Herc Reserve unit, I think).

I don't want a flying job because then I would be away from home three weeks out of the month. I was just curious what would be the easiest way to make the minimum retirement to have something in my back pocket for after age 60...

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-31-2008 08:54 AM

Space Command
 
I have a buddy who works--or worked--at Space Command at C-Springs. Non-flying, and paying. Worth a shot.

I think most of this is done at the compound out east of C-Springs, not Cheyenne Mountain. However, Buckley does a lot of space stuff now too (well, they always did, but now they are up-front about it, and changed it from a Guard Base to an Air Force Base).

Chris99 03-31-2008 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 352153)
I have a buddy who works--or worked--at Space Command at C-Springs. Non-flying, and paying. Worth a shot.

I think most of this is done at the compound out east of C-Springs, not Cheyenne Mountain. However, Buckley does a lot of space stuff now too (well, they always did, but now they are up-front about it, and changed it from a Guard Base to an Air Force Base).

Thanks for the lead. I looked up the general number for Schriever AFB, but do you know if your friend was working in the 50th Space Wing?

Slice 03-31-2008 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by Chris99 (Post 352108)

Slice, I'm not worried about paying back the VSP upon retirement because it will already be paid back with VA pay...

How does that work? Just curious.

UAL T38 Phlyer 03-31-2008 10:44 AM

Space Cadets
 
Chris99:

Re: 50th Space Wing.

I think so. We flew Phantoms together, then he got hired at United about a year after me...he was in no hurry to go back. Haven't really kept touch, just knew he was working out there......someplace.

Chris99 03-31-2008 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by Slice (Post 352186)
How does that work? Just curious.

You can't collect a bonus and "disability" at the same time. So they give you the bonus (minus taxes) after you separate. Then, if you qualify for any "disability" pay, all of those monthly allotments will go towards paying off the bonus amount. You only have to pay back the amount you actually received (i.e. the amount after the 25% taxes). By the time I'm 60, the VSP will have been paid off.

MoosePileit 03-31-2008 01:24 PM

I'm sure you've been briefed that care is needed w/ disability payouts and some types of continuing employment. I can't tell if you fly for a living, for example- if you do- the FAA may feel it needs to know about your VA disability issue and have either a waiver or a SODA or hopefully nothing but a recurring "previously reported, no change" on your physicals. Reason- the FAA violated dozens in CA last year based on their VA and other disability ratings and payments vs. their lack of said disclosures in their flight physical data. If this is your case, or anyone on the board- I'd get in touch w/ the folks in the know, not just random inputs, but this might be a timely notice for some. It was called operation Safe Pilot and used Social Security Admin payout data, not VA, but I don't know if they are linked. 3200+ of the 40,000 pilots in the state were flagged.

Chris99 03-31-2008 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by MoosePileit (Post 352361)
I'm sure you've been briefed that care is needed w/ disability payouts and some types of continuing employment. I can't tell if you fly for a living, for example- if you do- the FAA may feel it needs to know about your VA disability issue and have either a waiver or a SODA or hopefully nothing but a recurring "previously reported, no change" on your physicals. Reason- the FAA violated dozens in CA last year based on their VA and other disability ratings and payments vs. their lack of said disclosures in their flight physical data. If this is your case, or anyone on the board- I'd get in touch w/ the folks in the know, not just random inputs, but this might be a timely notice for some. It was called operation Safe Pilot and used Social Security Admin payout data, not VA, but I don't know if they are linked. 3200+ of the 40,000 pilots in the state were flagged.

This is a good point to make, but that's why I put "disability" in quotations. Technically, VA pay is "disability" pay even if the "disabilities" are minor and don't affect flying (as it is in my case). Your employer cannot ask you if you receive this "disability" pay at an interview. However, if you have any issues that affect flying, these have to be disclosed during your medical as you mentioned above (and could affect your ability to maintain a medical and continue flying). I do fly for a living and have a first class medical--no limitations.

rocketman99 04-01-2008 06:26 AM

Chris what did you end up getting the "disability" VA pay for? PM or call me. I remember we talked about it back when you had just gotten out but that was a while back...

L'il J.Seinfeld 03-05-2013 08:37 PM

Pretty good info, although I'm sure some things have changed.

Hueypilot 03-07-2013 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld (Post 1365964)
Pretty good info, although I'm sure some things have changed.

Yep things have changed. So far TPs and UTAs are fairly safe but there are restrictions on using AT (like when, and limits on non-local AT). RMPs are tough to swing, and both MPA and RPA money is drying up.

I love the reserves but plan on getting the min as far as pay periods (48 UTA, 48 AFTP and 15 days of AT) and nothing more. Some units are fighting just to fund that in today's fiscal climate. The current govt leadership is no friend to DoD.

sgraves 03-08-2013 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by Hueypilot (Post 1366846)
Yep things have changed. So far TPs and UTAs are fairly safe but there are restrictions on using AT (like when, and limits on non-local AT). RMPs are tough to swing, and both MPA and RPA money is drying up.

I love the reserves but plan on getting the min as far as pay periods (48 UTA, 48 AFTP and 15 days of AT) and nothing more. Some units are fighting just to fund that in today's fiscal climate. The current govt leadership is no friend to DoD.

I haven't seen any money for RMPs and only the need for Strat airlift is aiding our MPA/RPA funds.

Hueypilot 03-08-2013 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by sgraves (Post 1367875)
I haven't seen any money for RMPs and only the need for Strat airlift is aiding our MPA/RPA funds.

A year or two ago we could swing RMP money but that's gone now. We currently have the C-130H schoolhouse so that's the only thing driving MPA/RPA funds. Once we transition to a normal Herk unit I think given the current fiscal environment we'll see those dry up too.


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